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Old 06-07-2016, 16:21   #16
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Re: Norseman fittings sources?

Fisheries online inv is kinda 1% reliable, not sure they know what they have below, Paul is super nice and always goes the extra mile, I think he still does the rigging. You could also try calling Kent at Yachtmasters NW, they are the old Sound Rigging and Northwest yacht repair. It looks like Haye does have 10mm dyform T ball but only in a swage so that probably won't work.
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Old 06-07-2016, 17:31   #17
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Re: Norseman fittings sources?

It seems that Norseman’s are no longer made, period. Although some swage on fittings are semi-available, to include T-balls.
However in my searching, the consensus amongst riggers is that the Norseman’s are inferior to the other mechanical terminals out there. A conclusion which was reached via destruction testing of the various types, not just on loosely gathered experiences & feedback. And Brion (Toss) warned me away from them, in addition to mentioning the testing. All of this, before I could tell him that T-balls being a weak link in general, was old news. But he didn’t argue with my comments about the fact that historically, they’re known for failing without much warning, if any. So be wary of them.

I’ve still got a few feelers out, but it was late in the day before I had time to join the hunt. That said, at this point it seems that it won’t to be easy finding them. Which also has me thinking that if you do find them, you may be getting ones which have sat way back on the shelf at a rigging shop for a reason. That reason being, that the ones you find may be of a lesser quality than those which were put on boats to date. IE; out of 10 of these parts which were sent to a rigging shop, those which you find likely are closer to 1’s in quality than to 10’s. But that’s a guess on my end, & is speculative.

Also, a question which bears further research, is whether or not another brand of T-ball will properly fit the mast sockets which you currently have?

And, short term, I can't see that having a swage on T-ball fitting being a big issue. Especially if you may be 'forced' to switch to a new, superior, attachment system shortly. Yes, it'll surely cost more. But it's far less coin outlay than what a new rig, furlers, sails, & halyards would run.
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Old 06-07-2016, 18:47   #18
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Re: Norseman fittings sources?

These are $146 list so probably just over $100 with some shopping
Hi-Mod Compression Toggles - Hayn Marine | Fisheries Supply

Have 4 tangs made and you should be able to re-use the wire. Had pretty quick turn around from Hayn through Defender on some insulators.
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Old 06-07-2016, 18:56   #19
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Re: Norseman fittings sources?

Jim, surprised to hear of your problem with Rigging Only. Have used them many times. Accurate, fast, and easy to talk to.
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Old 06-07-2016, 19:46   #20
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Re: Norseman fittings sources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingscotts View Post
These are $146 list so probably just over $100 with some shopping
Hi-Mod Compression Toggles - Hayn Marine | Fisheries Supply

Have 4 tangs made and you should be able to re-use the wire. Had pretty quick turn around from Hayn through Defender on some insulators.
I'm aware of the Haynes fittings, and like them. But, they don't seem to make T-Ball terminals, and my mast would require considerable modification to switch to through bolts and tangs (which I prefer to T-balls). That process is not feasible for us at this time, but t hanks for the effort.

Jim
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Old 06-07-2016, 19:59   #21
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Re: Norseman fittings sources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
It seems that Norsemanís are no longer made, period. Although some swage on fittings are semi-available, to include T-balls.
However in my searching, the consensus amongst riggers is that the Norsemanís are inferior to the other mechanical terminals out there. A conclusion which was reached via destruction testing of the various types, not just on loosely gathered experiences & feedback. And Brion (Toss) warned me away from them, in addition to mentioning the testing. All of this, before I could tell him that T-balls being a weak link in general, was old news. But he didnít argue with my comments about the fact that historically, theyíre known for failing without much warning, if any. So be wary of them.

Iíve still got a few feelers out, but it was late in the day before I had time to join the hunt. That said, at this point it seems that it wonít to be easy finding them. Which also has me thinking that if you do find them, you may be getting ones which have sat way back on the shelf at a rigging shop for a reason. That reason being, that the ones you find may be of a lesser quality than those which were put on boats to date. IE; out of 10 of these parts which were sent to a rigging shop, those which you find likely are closer to 1ís in quality than to 10ís. But thatís a guess on my end, & is speculative.

Also, a question which bears further research, is whether or not another brand of T-ball will properly fit the mast sockets which you currently have?

And, short term, I can't see that having a swage on T-ball fitting being a big issue. Especially if you may be 'forced' to switch to a new, superior, attachment system shortly. Yes, it'll surely cost more. But it's far less coin outlay than what a new rig, furlers, sails, & halyards would run.
Andy, thanks again for all your efforts. I've about given up on finding Norseman bits and am trying to get more details on the SeaRig jobs. Currently awaiting a reply re whether they would be compatible with my Norseman mast sockets. So far, it looks favorable, at least as far as the gross measurements go.

As to using a swage on fitting, I'm willing to consider that if all else fails. One issue is that those fittings are lots shorter than the swageless ones, and the wire would be too short (I think). New wire isn't all that dear, but then I have the issue of new cones for the lower toggle fittings, and I'm pretty sure they are not now available. I don't want to use a swage at the bottom, so now looking at replacing more expensive hardware. Can do in a pinch, rather not (fancy that!). A toggle or two or a pair of link plates could cure this issue if necessary.

And as to Norseman being a poorer fitting than others... perhaps so, and perhaps that is why Navtec stopped making them. But, these have lasted a long time with this as a sole failure, so they can't be all that bad! But, the handwriting on the wall is clear: I'll have to do something! Right now, I just want to get this one wire back up and get north; it is cold for us troppo types here in NSW.

Jim
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Old 06-07-2016, 20:02   #22
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Re: Norseman fittings sources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Stocking View Post
Jim, surprised to hear of your problem with Rigging Only. Have used them many times. Accurate, fast, and easy to talk to.
We'll see if they respond to my e-mail in a decent time frame. Their voice mail announcement said "It's february 8 and it is snowing and blowing 50 knots. We're going home early" or something like that. This was today, 7 July here in Oz. I dunno if they ever recovered from that blizzard!

Jim
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Old 06-07-2016, 21:33   #23
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Re: Norseman fittings sources?

Jim/Anne,

Try chatting with Phil Bates at Royal Prince Alfred. He can usually source most about anything for rigging (at a price).

Good luck and lucky save.
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Old 06-07-2016, 21:44   #24
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Re: Norseman fittings sources?

I recommend Pedro or Brooks at Sailing Services in Miami; great collection of older parts... Sailing Services - Rigging, Lifelines, Winches, Furling Systems, Supplies, Ropes
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Old 07-07-2016, 09:17   #25
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Re: Norseman fittings sources?

Jim
The Searig fittings we used required changing out the mast sockets. The finish on the Searig parts was not as clean and smooth as the other rig parts, but they were all I could find.
I mentioned this earlier, you should check Secosouth in Miami. They bought up a lot of Norsemen inventory when Lewmar/navtec stopped supporting the line. They had some of what I needed.
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Old 07-07-2016, 22:50   #26
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Re: Norseman fittings sources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
Jim
The Searig fittings we used required changing out the mast sockets. The finish on the Searig parts was not as clean and smooth as the other rig parts, but they were all I could find.
I mentioned this earlier, you should check Secosouth in Miami. They bought up a lot of Norsemen inventory when Lewmar/navtec stopped supporting the line. They had some of what I needed.
G'Day paul and all others who have responded,

Consultation with a local rigger and the Aussie importer for Searig says that their T-ball will fit the Norseman sockets without difficulty. Unfortunately, the only chap at Searig (inNZ) who actually knows anything about these fittings will not be in 'till monday (friday here now), but unless he says something discouraging, I will be ordering new fittings for all four major shrouds. This will once again delay our departure for the tropics, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do!

I did get an e-mail back from Rigging only, and in a timely fashion... but they can't help and were doubtful as to the existence of the Norseman parts... too long since they shut down. I've e-mailed Seco South but not had a reply... not too hopeful there.

This has been an interesting exercise, albeit pretty frustrating, and I've learned a bunch about terminal types and availability. Now to get some parts and do a lot of trips up and down the mast!

Thanks again to those who tried to help... all appreciated.

Jim
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Old 24-07-2016, 16:21   #27
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Re: Norseman fittings sources?

Well, this is how it all played out...

I ordered four complete T-ball terminals from SeaRig via Arcus Wire here in the Sydney area. Took a bit over a week to actually get them in hand... not too bad for an overseas order that went through the importer.

Parts looked good, with excellent finish on the machined portions. I was a bit surprised that the cones included were made of some yellow metal, for both Sta Lok and Norseman moved to s/s cones years ago. I'm not competent to comment on the difference, but assume that they work ok!

I had hoped that the threads on the T- portion of the fitting would be the same as the Norseman, for then the job would simply be unscrew one and put in the other. Alas, it was not to be, for the Norseman were NC thread and the SeaRig were 5/8 UNF. So, I had to cut off the old fitting and replace the lot. Fortunately, the overall length of the SeaRig fitting is about 3 inches greater than the Norseman so the length of the complete shroud didn't change. No issues with assembly; SeaRig Does not recommend using sealant in the fitting so I skipped that... albeit reluctantly, 'cause it makes sense to me to use it. All in all, a completely routine procedure.

This will get us moving again, but when we are next alongside a dock for a bit, I'll do the other three shrouds. Could do them now, but dealing with the cap shrouds is physically awkward on deck. Meanwhile, I'll be checking those old fittings with binoculars rather frequently!

Thanks again to those w ho tried to help.

Jim
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Old 29-07-2016, 22:24   #28
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Re: Norseman fittings sources?

I have found that my Dremmel tool w/Cutting wheel does a nice job on rigging cable. I have used it to cut good compression stuff out of old rigging piles.

Gave a couple of Norseman 1/4" turnbuckles and a jaw toggle to a young fellow trying to re-rig another mast after loosing his. His intention is to reuse the old cones if he cannot find new and the old ones look serviceable.
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