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Old 12-06-2016, 14:02   #16
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Re: Nomenclature

I suggest just plain Foks'l, although conceivably it could be confused with foc'sle. But just imagine the opportunity to tell the crew to f'ing trim the f'ing Foks'l !
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Old 12-06-2016, 14:07   #17
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Re: Nomenclature

Early days yet, and only a thought. On the other hand, if I can come up with a stick that clocks in at about 20lbs I think it might be less bother that a spinnaker pole cos you wouldn't have to muck with it above your head while one end is already attached to a rag can't make up its mind whether to fill or not. The weight of the stick will be the key.

The Swedes - who are funny about stuff like this - have come up with some SUPERB yotting innovations, not least of which is the Nordic Folkebaad and her little sister the Juniorbaad. Then they go haywire and come up with stuff like the "split main" which IIRC was called a "Ljunggren rig". It was loose-footed. Mercifully it went quietly to its grave just like that effort that was s'posed to propel itself via gas-pot powered rotating masts :-)!

Back then there was the equivalent of a Volstead Act in the fair land of my ethnic cousins, and they used to come across the Sound in DROVES to get tiddley in Copenhagen. For a while, "rolling a Swede" was the national sport of the Danes. Those weird innovations like the Ljungren were the wages of spending too much time in Copenhagen :-)!

As for my yard - well, in these days of multitasking: We all know how nice it is to be able to boom the puppy away from the topsides and we all know that in a 30ft toy ship the only place to stow the puppy when on passage is on the foredeck. We also all know how handy a cargo boom can be. There is NO WAY MyBeloved, unassisted my modern science, could get our puppy, an aging sabot sufficiently sodden to clock in at 85lbs, up'n'over a 40" side with a life line atop.

So perhaps I might be able to make a 15 foot length of 3" "irritation" pipe serve three discrete purposes. Whaddayathink :-)?

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Old 12-06-2016, 14:16   #18
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Re: Nomenclature

Nay, Barnakiel. We are on Dockhead's native turf here, so we can't liken a Baltic galease to an East Coast jackass. Dockhead wouldn't like it ;-)!

Markus' wordplay had not escaped me, of course, but usually I have ladies - not just females, but LADIES - aboard :-)

And if it wasn't for my observation that there are LADIES on CF as well - oh, the stories I could tell you :-)!

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Old 12-06-2016, 14:22   #19
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Re: Nomenclature

My apologies if I have offended anyone. I saw a golden opportunity that my juvenile mind could not ignore.
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Old 12-06-2016, 15:04   #20
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Re: Nomenclature

No offense taken, Markus :-)

'Twas only this morning, after I came back from dealing with an assault in progress in our building, that MyBeloved and I had a rather ribald conversation about the various permutations of language appropriate for a given situation. Even SHE, the lady-est of ladies knows the language of the waterfront, not to mention that of truckers (among whom I once had to count myself) and of railway construction navvies

I was just pulling your leg while I was recalling a luvverly tale of a "New Canadian" - back in 1942 - who was a little uncertain as to our vernacular ;-)
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Old 12-06-2016, 17:54   #21
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Re: Nomenclature

The English name is 'course'. You can use bredfock if that's what sounds sweet to your ear.

One must try hard to understand why sails like this are not popular on cruising boats sailing the ARC and other gatherings. After all, hoisted on a carbon spar and with the mast secured with an extra runner they should be easier faster and simpler than any other running sail. No?

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Old 12-06-2016, 20:42   #22
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Re: Nomenclature

Yes Barnakiel, I am thinking along those lines, but you, and possibly Steady, and I would have a mighty job convincing some that "modern" is not necessarily better, or even the equal of, "tried and true" :-)

We agree, I'm sure, that in a ship the lowest squares are, from for to aft, forecourse (fok), course (storsejl) and cro'jack (bergine). Next ones up are (in modern ships) lower foretopsl (underformærssejl), lower topsl (storeundermærssejl) and lower mizzentopsl (underkrydsmærssejl). Next, going up, are upper foretopsl (overformærssejl), upper topsl (storeoverformærssejl) and upper mizzentopsl (overkrydsmærssejl). I give you the Danish only to underscore how fortunate we are to be speaking English ;-0)!

The yards for the courses and the cro'jack were slung on fixed cranes just under the tops and the yards for the lower topsls on cranes just under the hounds. In consequence these yards could not move up and down. The yards for the upper topsls, however, were on halyards and were held to the topmasts by parrels so that to strike the upper topsls the yards were bought down to lie on top of the yards for the lowers.

Some ships had triangular storm courses and cro'jacks. The forecourses were always square. The advantage of the triangular sails was not considered worth the hassle of having to actually change canvas rather than reef. I had played with the thought of a triangular "downwind" sail for TrentePieds, but I also came to the conclusion that it wouldn't be worthwhile, for the loss of area would negate the very advantages I'm after by thinking of a square sail at all.

Generally the first square sails to come in were those above the upper topsls, working from the top down, then the courses, so that in a "topsl breeze" only the lower topsls were set. These then came in from aft to fore till the ship wore only the foretopsl. The fore and aft sails were a chapter of their own.

All nifty stuff to remember, but given that my proposed sail will occupy a position high enuff to match that of a conventinal topsl, maybe that's the label I'll go with, unless I embrace Markus' idea just to set tongues wagging in the marinas :-)

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Old 12-06-2016, 20:47   #23
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Re: Nomenclature

I think these days they call it a square top main sail. Assuming this is a Marconi rig there are far better ways to add sail area than adding a boom to the top of the mast.
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Old 13-06-2016, 07:38   #24
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Re: Nomenclature

Pray say what they are :-)

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Old 13-06-2016, 07:58   #25
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Re: Nomenclature

Yep.

Nowadays that you can build a yard that weighs about 13 pounds total vs. a wooden classic of maybe 100 pounds or there abouts there should be no hassle nor risk to lower the yard to the deck and secure alongsides when not in actual use.

We met a Can boat what looked like a Spray, while in Spain coast around 2007, she was a fore and aft (ketch maybe) and carried a square downwind sail on her fore mast. So to say the old ways are not gone for good, just less common today.

Happy running!
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