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Old 21-05-2018, 04:54   #1
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Question Newbie winch question

Good day lords ladies and gentlemen and fellow comrades , I have been a lurker for a few years now and have taken the plunge to ask my first question in what I perceive to be the best sailing forum on the web ,
I have taken the unusual step and bought a 1979 42ft aft moody Ketch designed by Angus primrose to set sail and circumnavigate with no timescale with myself my Wife and daughter , the plan is to set sail in 2020 once the Admiral has finished her PHD in fresh water ecology , at the moment I am fitting out the boat to sail around Scotland and the North Atlantic to get her and the crew ship shape for the journey
So my questions to the community are regarding winch sizes for the fore sail and the rest of the rig as I am trying to get the boat set up for short handed sailing , I suffer from a neurological condition M.E and Fibromyalgia which gives me constant pain and fatigue , I was a very fit guy before I came down with this but can still maintain a decent level of fitness although I do have bad days that can lay me flat.
When we depart I will be 49 and the Admiral will be 42 she is a formidable lady who is training to do triathlons, looks after me our daughter who will be aged 10 2 large dogs a cat and 10 fish so I donít see any problems in regards to her strength or stamina , the boat is is need of major upgrades in which I am doing most of it myself , but I have issues with the winches ,
At the moment she is fitted with

Lewmar 2 46STgenoa Cockpit top
Lewmar 2 8 spinnaker Mast
Lewmar 2 8halyard Mast
Lewmar 1 6 Halyard mizzen

And her sail area is as follows
Mainsail 26.94m2 = 291sq2
Mizzen 10.03m2 = 108sq2
Foresail 33.80m2 =363sq2

She displaces 11 tonnes and runs on the perkins 4236 engine , so as I need this boat to be easily handled with 2 and a half mainly on trade winds but also around the North Atlantic for a few years before heading of,f what do you guys think About the winch set up , what is the best set up, what size of winches should I fit , were would be best to place these winches , Ideally for shorthanded sailing, are electric winches the only real alternative or has any one used the battery operated winch handles , do they have enough torque , and is anyone else cruising with a disability and how do you overcome this, I know there was a Vlog with a gentleman with muscular dystrophy (2 afloat sailing) very inspirational , but would be nice to hear from others .
I have my 70 year Father in law coming over from California a delivery skipper in his day with 50 years experience to help with the running rigging layout but as always its good to have multiple opinions, also after experiencing some shoddy companies were Iím based regarding marine services I hesitate to get a rigger in as people seem to take advantage a little to much , but if anyone could recommend a good rigger around the Clyde area of Scotland then I can take that under consideration
Thanks for reading such a long post , if you need any more info on the set up or boat just ask I i will try to answer , although Iím a dinghy instructor and sailed and cruised for a fair number of years this is the biggest boat I have taken on and suddenly it becomes very important to get it right as my family are involved.
I have also taken the time to look at the Harken website and the lewmar website , but get slight confused in regards to the different numbers and charts for comparison , and I appreciate their are far more intelligent people out there that can understand ratios and delta curves and trigonometry much better than me , so if possible simple is better for myself to understand, or I will have to get the Admiral involved and that could lead to scientific papers been written on the subject.
Oh money is not free flowing but I have some money to spend on the best and right equipment versus cost
Thanks again
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Old 21-05-2018, 05:10   #2
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Re: Newbie winch question

You can always buy longer winch handles for more leverage ...
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Old 21-05-2018, 08:26   #3
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Re: Newbie winch question

Electric winches are pricey, but can make your life a lot easier. Check out the underside of your combings and see if there is enough room to fit the motors? I injured my arm and the wife was the winch grinder for several months on our 44 foot 30K lb boat and she could do it, but it was sometimes a strain. I would expect your ground tackle to be the most important thing to be worked out for easy use. Electric winch, all chain, bow rollers that work without having to bend over and lift, chain locker that doesnt require diving into it to sort out a pile of chain. The more overlap there is on the headsails, the harder the work of tacking is. A working jib is your friend and a genoa is not fun. I think it will all work out fine. That Perkins is a hell of a big engine for that size boat. I hope you have a feathering prop? Good Luck, ____Grant.
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Old 21-05-2018, 16:26   #4
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Re: Newbie winch question

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Originally Posted by TreblePlink View Post
You can always buy longer winch handles for more leverage ...
yes you can but the energy output is still high with my condition as we will be 2 handed sailing i expect to be doing a fair share of winch work , so looking at it , is bigger winches better , electric the way forward or winch motorised handles a good idea? , to conserve energy and pacing is the way forward for myself but ty for the feedback
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Old 21-05-2018, 16:33   #5
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Re: Newbie winch question

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Originally Posted by gjordan View Post
Electric winches are pricey, but can make your life a lot easier. Check out the underside of your combings and see if there is enough room to fit the motors? I injured my arm and the wife was the winch grinder for several months on our 44 foot 30K lb boat and she could do it, but it was sometimes a strain. I would expect your ground tackle to be the most important thing to be worked out for easy use. Electric winch, all chain, bow rollers that work without having to bend over and lift, chain locker that doesnt require diving into it to sort out a pile of chain. The more overlap there is on the headsails, the harder the work of tacking is. A working jib is your friend and a genoa is not fun. I think it will all work out fine. That Perkins is a hell of a big engine for that size boat. I hope you have a feathering prop? Good Luck, ____Grant.
Yes absolutely on the ground tackle we have a 1500 horizon running 100 metres of chain on a 20kg Rocna anchor she is 24 volt with a battery bank of 600 amps so 300 amps available , in regards to the engine size , yes she has a big engine I think the thinking behind the design was looking at the motor sailor market and this was Angus's thinking when he designed this model of boat, looking at the cost of a folding prop , which could give up to 1 knot more , pretty impressive,
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Old 21-05-2018, 16:46   #6
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Re: Newbie winch question

I think electric winches are much better although expensive. Electric winch handles such as WinchRite or a 90 degrees Milwaukee drill cost far less but may not be as powerful and they are heavy to move around the deck holding on to the winching device and hanging on to a pitching deck. I use a WinchRite and it works but has its limitations. True electric winches would be better. Of course you have to decide the cost versus functionality equation for yourself.
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Old 21-05-2018, 18:34   #7
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Re: Newbie winch question

FYI the number on a winch tells you its mechanical advantage. A 48 gives you 48x the mechanical advantage. So yes, bigger is better in terms of that.

As for setting up for single handing, there are lots of schools of thought, lots of approaches and decisions to make, and many of them depend on the boat itself. You could lead most lines back to the cockpit but there are disadvantages to that in terms of crowding, more complexity, more deck hardware, and some functions like reefing the main that are problematic. Whether to lead lines back to the cockpit or leave it all at the mast comes down to the boat, your comfort working on the deck/coachroof, etc.

Everyone I know who has had a Winchrite had ended up throwing it in the trash and getting the Milwaukee right angle drill. I've used it and it's a beast and heavy but really does work once you get the hang of it. Certainly electric winches are easier but they do have risks (finger loss) and are expensive.
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Old 21-05-2018, 19:58   #8
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Re: Newbie winch question

Bigger genoa winch might be in order. With the ketch rig you don't have a huge 'J' with commensurate sized genoa but a 46 still seems to be a bit small for your sized boat. I had 40's on my 35' boat and upgraded to 43's and it made a big difference especially when short tacking up the Alameda Estuary. 12" handles help a lot but you might not be able to swing that large a handle. If not, a ratcheting handle comes in real handy so you can stay with the low speed when you need it.

Then again you probably aren't going to be a whole lot of racing and the time spent winching won't be all that great. I did a passage to Hawaii and only jibed once and went more than 10 days without touching a string and then only then 'cause I got bored and wanted something to do. That hasn't been atypical of my open ocean passages.
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Old 21-05-2018, 21:22   #9
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Re: Newbie winch question

Seems OK to me. The sails arn't that big on a ketch. That's the point.
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Old 22-05-2018, 02:31   #10
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Re: Newbie winch question

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, tarian.
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Old 22-05-2018, 02:52   #11
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Re: Newbie winch question

Welcome to CF. The firs thing I would do is join the Moodys Owners Association who have a wealth of knowledge with this marque. The Scottish Branch members will be able to recommend a rigger on the Clyde for you.

http://moodyowners.org/
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Old 22-05-2018, 07:39   #12
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Re: Newbie winch question

After 2 shoulder surgeries, we opted for an electric winch for the main. One of the better upgrades we've done and well worth the expense. Rest of the winches are fine. For the record, we have Lewmar 52 as the primaries, 44s for most of the others.

Note that there are electrics that have the motor built into the base, so no underdeck space needed, albeit they sit higher.

Re winchmate/Milwaukee. Lots of folks love them, but be careful to hold them securely. Otherwise, they can easily lead to injuries.
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Old 25-05-2018, 16:04   #13
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Re: Newbie winch question

I sail pretty much singlehanded (my wife is small and has ms) and although we have big winches on our 50’ (56st Genoa, 48st halyards, 46st furler/spinnaker) we have the port cockpit winch electric. Notionally this is for the main halyard and second reef, both of which lead directly to it. However, it is so arranged in the cockpit that you can take a turn around any winch and lead the rope neatly to this winch. Thus we can use it for either genoa sheet should we wish, or the furler, or genoa halyard.

So remember that although big quality electric winches are very spendy, with careful planning you will find just having one will give you most of the advantage.
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