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Old 20-07-2016, 07:50   #16
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Re: New Traveler

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Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
i would like to see the quote sheet, but that sounds like a pretty high markup on the part and 12 hours in labor. The labor seems pretty generous as well.

I replaced the travler on a J-130 in about 3 hours of total labor (me and a helper).

Frankly I think they are trying to rip you off.
I think they are just used to people handing them blank check books. I am going to do this myself, if nothing else I will save lots of $$$ just getting normal hardware discount and not having to pay sales tax.
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Old 20-07-2016, 08:32   #17
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Re: New Traveler

I don't think they are trying to rip you off, I think that often they get into jobs that require different parts and having to run to the store etc. and they spend way more hours than they first thought. How many one or two hours jobs have you done, that took a day or two to complete? And they have very high expenses that have to be spread around, and or maybe they had just as soon not do the job and are pricing it so they don't have to.

Either way I learned a long time ago that I just didn't want to pay others to do what I can do, except for a few dirty, labor intensive jobs, those I will pay to have done.
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Old 20-07-2016, 18:46   #18
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Re: New Traveler

One thing to do, probably before doing anything else, is to ask the yard for a breakdown of the costs in the quote. And why they forsee the job taking so many hours. As perhaps they see some complexity which isn't obvious.
BTW, what's their hourly rate for such jobs?


How much dip is there in the center of the track, & how long is the track? As if it's only a tiny amount, so long as the traveler track isn't uber stiff by design, then... you might simply use the bolts to pull it into place.
With the measurements in hand, it'd be a simple matter to query the track's manufacturer about such. And like Stumble said, Harken's customer service is outstanding. So it's worth asking. Otherwise, have the track professionally bent to shape.

You also might do some searching to see if other Swan owners have replaced their travelers, & what was involved.

And, thinking on things, the yard's quote may be high simply because it is a Swan, & they figure that you can afford it, based on the marque.
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Old 20-07-2016, 20:39   #19
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Re: New Traveler

Take a look at Harken which is the Harken page on bent track. It also has the guidelines for how to order it correctly.

For a 10' track you are talking about un bolting about 20 bolts. Removing the old hardware, clean up the residue, then bolting the new one down. It will take someone to help removing the old track but really is a one day job for two people.


The hard part will be that on average about half the bolts will strip instead of unscrew. If you want to be gentle you can try to work them off. If you are fine destroying the old one you can just cut the old bolts off.
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Old 20-07-2016, 21:12   #20
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Re: New Traveler

Garhauer. Call Garhauer, talk with Rob Gorman or Guido. I'm doing mine as we speak and they were recommended by numerous people on CF.
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Old 08-09-2016, 07:51   #21
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Re: New Traveler

Great post and info.

With the new hardtop arrangement and canvas I want to remove the main sheet traveler track from the combing at the aft end of the cockpit of my Irwin 38 CC. Schaefer make the elevated ends and I think I can even add some middle support via the original single point block on the cabin top. Garhauer ends look like a much more economical choice.

The 1 1/8 Schaefer 4' track is I great shape so I'm being frugal.

Has as anyone in the group made this change? The hinged end pieces are a bit steep price wise so before I commit I thought I'd reach out here.

Thanks for any thoughts or ideas.
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Old 08-09-2016, 12:08   #22
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Re: New Traveler

I only use Harken so I can't really comment.

But I will say, replace the track at the same time. It's the cheapest part of the system and the aluminium rails wear out over time. They are also not identicle from builder to builder, even if they use the same base measurements. Those small imperfections or differences can add up to a substantial difference.
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Old 08-09-2016, 12:24   #23
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Re: New Traveler

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Originally Posted by PuttingDoctor View Post
Great post and info.

With the new hardtop arrangement and canvas I want to remove the main sheet traveler track from the combing at the aft end of the cockpit of my Irwin 38 CC. Schaefer make the elevated ends and I think I can even add some middle support via the original single point block on the cabin top. Garhauer ends look like a much more economical choice.

The 1 1/8 Schaefer 4' track is I great shape so I'm being frugal.

Has as anyone in the group made this change? The hinged end pieces are a bit steep price wise so before I commit I thought I'd reach out here.

Thanks for any thoughts or ideas.
You need to make sure that where ever you're planning on moving the track to can handle the loads. As ones generated by mainsheets aren't small. And if you're going to use elevated track on towers, then the load gets greatly concentrated at the 2 mounting points at the track ends.

Also, if you plan on using elevated track, then you need a special track which has an integral beam built in. As standard track which you bolt down to the deck isn't designed to span distances, unsupported.

And if moving the track also means shifting where the mainsheet is attached to the boom, again, this could cause problems. Since the boom may not have been designed to handle the loads generated by the sheet if applied to it's mid-point vs. it's end. So you could wind up possibly breaking it in the first stiff breeze, or tack where it slams across with any speed.
If in doubt, consult a rigger or someone with experience in moving deck hardware around.
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Old 08-09-2016, 13:53   #24
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Re: New Traveler

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
You need to make sure that where ever you're planning on moving the track to can handle the loads. As ones generated by mainsheets aren't small. And if you're going to use elevated track on towers, then the load gets greatly concentrated at the 2 mounting points at the track ends.

Also, if you plan on using elevated track, then you need a special track which has an integral beam built in. As standard track which you bolt down to the deck isn't designed to span distances, unsupported.

And if moving the track also means shifting where the mainsheet is attached to the boom, again, this could cause problems. Since the boom may not have been designed to handle the loads generated by the sheet if applied to it's mid-point vs. it's end. So you could wind up possibly breaking it in the first stiff breeze, or tack where it slams across with any speed.
If in doubt, consult a rigger or someone with experience in moving deck hardware around.
Thanks, the move aft is not much more than 6-8 inches. I also have the original center post to support the middle of the track as well. The Schaefer track is quite stout and I think with the proper attention to installation may work well. Access is not a problem due to the installation on the combing from below the headliner was opened and then covered with a teak trim.

I'm also an adept aluminum fabricator via t-slot type hardware and if I need to backup the track for strength I can see doing that for less than the cost of a new track and car setup.

The Schaefer system is not as old as the boat and shows little wear. The boat is a cruiser not a racer.

I'm just wanting to get it off the combing and outside the canvas at the rear of the cockpit.
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Old 08-09-2016, 20:20   #25
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Re: New Traveler

Another vote for Garhauer. They are cheap but are not lower quality. I switched all the blocks on my old boat to Garhauer and have a bunch of garhauer snatch blocks for various purposes. Really well made stuff. I dont know how it is they make such high quality stuff at the prices they sell at but why argue? They are great.
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Old 08-09-2016, 20:40   #26
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Re: New Traveler

A+++ for Garhaur excellent products... I have been a machinist for 36 years and I know quality when I see it.
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Old 08-09-2016, 20:47   #27
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Re: New Traveler

Quote:
I dont know how it is they make such high quality stuff at the prices they sell at but why argue?
I don't know either, but here are some guesses:

They don't advertise much (at all?).

They don't support high end racing teams as part of their image.

They have contracts with at least one high volume manufacturer (Catalina) to supply OEM fittings, a nd this gives a great production base for them.

And, to be honest, while quite adequate for most applications, their products are not quite up to the standards of the higher end Harken stuff, which is just beautiful!

Jim
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