New Swage - metal torn at root - Acceptable?

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by david samuelson

Hi,
The swaging begins near the eye and works from the eye. The dies (a pair are used) have a leading edge which is rounded so makes a gradual decrease of size on the terminal. If the dies are put the wrong way round, i.e. beginning with the non-rounded edge, you will get an abrupt start, which is what I think I am seeing here.
Not good.

This is what I suspected too. I think transitions should always be smooth.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by zstine

I just received my new rigging from a respectable builder who's been doing this for decades. The root of the crimp is very abrupt compared to the old swages (see pic 1). When inspected closely, some metal tearing or surface cracks are evident in the transition area at the root of the crimp

Can't tell from those photos but If the surface has been breached, crevice corrosion has a big, big jump start.
PS. I'm a Certified Corrosion Analyst

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Can't tell from those photos but If the surface has been breached, crevice corrosion has a big, big jump start.
PS. I'm a Certified Corrosion Analyst

I'm curious, Poker: would polishing out the area, possibly after some careful radiusing with a small grinding wheel, remove that problem?

Jim

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I'm curious, Poker: would polishing out the area, possibly after some careful radiusing with a small grinding wheel, remove that problem?

Jim

It could help on new rigging but if I had just paid for new rigging I don't think I'd accept that. I don't believe it would help on aged rigging.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I'm curious, Poker: would polishing out the area, possibly after some careful radiusing with a small grinding wheel, remove that problem?

Jim

Jim, It sounds like the gentleman bought new rigging. I thin it should not have flaws in it.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Jim, It sounds like the gentleman bought new rigging. I thin it should not have flaws in it.

Oh, I quite agree with you and BP. I wasn't asking to help the OP, I was curious in the general sense, as in if I was to notice such a flaw in a swage on a boat of mine (not that i have any!) and not be able to replace it immediately.

Jim

[Cheechako]

Well, I think the OP is committed to what he has. Unless there is any cracking etc it will probably be fine for many years. Not the best, but better than the old stuff! He could blend out any rough stuff and zyglo any concerns to be sure I suppose. Lesson learned, always rotary swage!
One of my early boats had the "pressed swages". A couple of them were actually curved on the swage from pressing for some reason.

[zstine]

Thanks for everyone's input! sorry I haven't posted...
I'm the OP and there's enough concern from you all that I will discuss it with the rigger on Monday.. uhg. Yes, all the swages are this way. I am very concerned that this will give crevis corrosion a foot hold and lead to catastrophic failure several years down the road. I still need some rigging work done and don't want to get into a pissing match with the rigging Co. But if the swaging is inferior, then I have $4000 of crap rig IMO... why should I be out the $$? I have an up hill battle, there's not much incentive other than reputation for the company do 'fix' it since it's paid in full.
If (as I expect) the rigger tells me to get lost or that I have to pay for repairs, then what's the best way to smooth the transition? Hand file away the surface issues and polish? I don't think scotch bright won't be aggressive enough, but don't want to go too far and make it worse. So using a dremel tool make me nervous.. maybe a dremel with a sand paper disk?

Thanks,
Zach

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by zstine

Thanks for everyone's input! sorry I haven't posted...
I'm the OP and there's enough concern from you all that I will discuss it with the rigger on Monday.. uhg. Yes, all the swages are this way. I am very concerned that this will give crevis corrosion a foot hold and lead to catastrophic failure several years down the road. I still need some rigging work done and don't want to get into a pissing match with the rigging Co. But if the swaging is inferior, then I have $4000 of crap rig IMO... why should I be out the $$? I have an up hill battle, there's not much incentive other than reputation for the company do 'fix' it since it's paid in full.
If (as I expect) the rigger tells me to get lost or that I have to pay for repairs, then what's the best way to smooth the transition? Hand file away the surface issues and polish? I don't think scotch bright won't be aggressive enough, but don't want to go too far and make it worse. So using a dremel tool make me nervous.. maybe a dremel with a sand paper disk?

Thanks,
Zach

Don't use anything with iron in it to smooth the transition. No files etc. Use silicon carbide abrasives or similar, polish them to a shine when done. Common Aluminum Oxide abrasives will work also. Maybe a dremel tool with small drums would be good to start with. I would not worry about any short radius transitions, as long as they are fairly smooth, just fi gouges etc. Let's face it, where the wire enters a swage (on any swage) is great spot for crevice corrosion to start also, but swages last many years.
The only cracked swages I've ever seen were on the end of the fitting where the wire goes in.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by zstine

Thanks for everyone's input! sorry I haven't posted...
I'm the OP and there's enough concern from you all that I will discuss it with the rigger on Monday.. uhg. Yes, all the swages are this way. I am very concerned that this will give crevis corrosion a foot hold and lead to catastrophic failure several years down the road. I still need some rigging work done and don't want to get into a pissing match with the rigging Co. But if the swaging is inferior, then I have $4000 of crap rig IMO... why should I be out the $$? I have an up hill battle, there's not much incentive other than reputation for the company do 'fix' it since it's paid in full.
If (as I expect) the rigger tells me to get lost or that I have to pay for repairs, then what's the best way to smooth the transition? Hand file away the surface issues and polish? I don't think scotch bright won't be aggressive enough, but don't want to go too far and make it worse. So using a dremel tool make me nervous.. maybe a dremel with a sand paper disk?

Thanks,
Zach

I would approach the rigger with something like, I would like to bring this to your attention since I feel it is not indicative of what you want going out the door. It's the old honey and vinegar adage. I hope you get satisfaction.

[leftbrainstuff]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I'm curious, Poker: would polishing out the area, possibly after some careful radiusing with a small grinding wheel, remove that problem?

Jim

You cannot repair a swage by grinding or polishing. It's a cold forming process.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[leftbrainstuff]

Originally Posted by zstine

Thanks for everyone's input! sorry I haven't posted...
I'm the OP and there's enough concern from you all that I will discuss it with the rigger on Monday.. uhg. Yes, all the swages are this way. I am very concerned that this will give crevis corrosion a foot hold and lead to catastrophic failure several years down the road. I still need some rigging work done and don't want to get into a pissing match with the rigging Co. But if the swaging is inferior, then I have $4000 of crap rig IMO... why should I be out the $$? I have an up hill battle, there's not much incentive other than reputation for the company do 'fix' it since it's paid in full.
If (as I expect) the rigger tells me to get lost or that I have to pay for repairs, then what's the best way to smooth the transition? Hand file away the surface issues and polish? I don't think scotch bright won't be aggressive enough, but don't want to go too far and make it worse. So using a dremel tool make me nervous.. maybe a dremel with a sand paper disk?

Thanks,
Zach

You cannot repair a cold formed swage by grinding, polishing or filing. Scotch brite will do nothing.

At worst you will heat effect the material, and exacerbate corrosion, and likely remove sufficient material that the swage itself is further compromised.

You mention all the swages are this way. Is this rigger a newbie? Did he outsource the swaging? Is this from a rigger or someone who does architectural work?

Shipping this to a customer demonstrates a lack of quality control. Does this rigger have a quality or DoL certification for making and repairing lifting and hoisting gear. Might give you recourse.

You can't repair these swages. You must replace the swages (single use) and wire (length too short).

If the rigger wont replace then you might be stuck with them. If I was forced to use them then I would monitor their behaviour, in terms of visible corrosion at the wire swage interface. You could then plan to replace them when funds become available.


Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff

You cannot repair a swage by grinding or polishing. It's a cold forming process.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Of course you can repair SS surface issues by grinding and polishing properly. It's how SS is made less prone to corrosion. Repair cracks ? No you cant do that.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff

You cannot repair a swage by grinding or polishing. It's a cold forming process.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Well, of course you can't repair the swage itself, but why can you not remove stress risers or potential corrosion sites from the terminal portion of the assembly?

Jim

[neilpride]

This is not unusual and not a big concern, since most cracks over time develop at the the end of the terminal, what is a concern for me looking at the pics is the deep of the swage and the single pass with the dies, nothing wrong with that but I prefer the double press in the dies and don't leave the mark with the single one, maybe they can mistake the die diameter like Barnakiel mention , its very easy to make the mistake if you are busy and don't pay attention but also is easy to detect after the work in the terminal , metric and imperial , there is some hig quality terminals with a thick wall at the insertion and the regular die don't press well the terminal then you need to check the conversion table and adjust the die for the particular terminal, it happen to me ...