New Sails ... sailcloth choice?

[Kelkara]

Thanks for all the feedback guys, it's starting to make more sense.

I should perhaps add that I do also have a huge lightweight 150?% genoa, and a smaller high-cut Jib, that are both still in reasonable condition. It's just the main and 135 that are badly showing their age. Boat is maybe 8000 lbs with an SA/D of 16.8.

Wind is often quite light, but I did find myself sailing in 30kts a couple of times last summer, so I need sails that can handle this too.

If I know that the forecast is for high winds or that I'll be heading mostly upwind I'll put on the jib at the beginning of the day. But if I start the day with the 135, I'm definitely more comfortable rolling it up partially than going forward to change sails if the wind picks up a bit.

The 150 is a lot of sail unless the wind is very light, so I have rarely used it (and judging by its condition neither did the previous owner).

It seems as if most quotes I've got have been varieties of Challenge High-Modulus and Contender Supercruise cloth, which both look to be standard cruising cloth.

So if I've got all your advices correct, It looks like I should get the main a bit heavier than the Genoa, but not go too light on the genoa because I do roll it up, and I also have the 150 for if the wind drops right down.

[mikedefieslife]

If you often use your genoa partially furled then get a foam/padded luff inserted. This will take in some of the belly when rolled up and give a better sail shape.

[zstine]

I think your quotes are pretty high, especially $4500! ouch. I bought a cutter/heavy wind jib and a 120% gennoa for my 41ft Tartan last year. I'm happy with both sails. One I 'copied' specs from my old Genny and just fed the info to National sail and they made a fine sail and cheap. The cutter took some design work and I dealt with Jamie from s/v Totem and Phil Auger in Sri Lanka from "Zoom Sails". Phil was very helpful, my a sail was made out of Challenge sail cloth. The chellenge sail cloth has much thicker thread and is noticably more resinated than the Marbelhead. I suspect that the resin will break down and the sail shape won't be as good as marblehead, but the sail maker claims Marblehead has UV degradation issues... so??

From National Sail supply (RollyTasker):
Offshore specs, Challenge 8.77oz Cross Cut Marblehead cloth ($2,375 base price per below)

Luff 52', Leech 48', Foot 22'
#6 luff tape for harken furler
White Sunbrella on Port side.
Add foam in luff for better shape when reefed ($189)
Shipping to NJ ($64)

total: $2,628


Cutter sail $1094... from Zoom
staysail 17.77sqm, 11.2m lu, 10m le, 3.82m ft, CB 9.1oz, #2 65mm Swedish
brass hanks, radial patches, triple stitched
seams, dyneema leech and foot cords, sail
bag. Including shipping to USA via Fedex

[KiwiKen]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Perhaps many sailmakers have noted that many modern sailors use that 150% genoa rolled way up in strong winds. If they used proper light weight sailcloth, the shape would be gone quite rapidly... perhaps shredded. This sort of abuse is SO common that they just design to a sort of lowest common denominator dummy sail customer.

Or they could just be lousy sailmakers!

Jim

Precisely, a furling headsail is always a compromise, and if it is to survive furled in strong winds, it will not perform fully unfurled in the light.

Furling headsails are ok for shorthanded sailing, but they will never give anywhere near optimal performance - coming from an offshore racing background I prefer the twin foils, and piston hanks certainly have their merits.

[Kestrahl]

Originally Posted by Kelkara

Thanks for all the feedback guys, it's starting to make more sense.

I should perhaps add that I do also have a huge lightweight 150?% genoa, and a smaller high-cut Jib, that are both still in reasonable condition. It's just the main and 135 that are badly showing their age. Boat is maybe 8000 lbs with an SA/D of 16.8.

Wind is often quite light, but I did find myself sailing in 30kts a couple of times last summer, so I need sails that can handle this too.

If I know that the forecast is for high winds or that I'll be heading mostly upwind I'll put on the jib at the beginning of the day. But if I start the day with the 135, I'm definitely more comfortable rolling it up partially than going forward to change sails if the wind picks up a bit.

The 150 is a lot of sail unless the wind is very light, so I have rarely used it (and judging by its condition neither did the previous owner).

It seems as if most quotes I've got have been varieties of Challenge High-Modulus and Contender Supercruise cloth, which both look to be standard cruising cloth.

So if I've got all your advices correct, It looks like I should get the main a bit heavier than the Genoa, but not go too light on the genoa because I do roll it up, and I also have the 150 for if the wind drops right down.

Its a bit tough to figure out all the different dacrons.
Challenge High Mod is high tenacity polyester - less stretch
Supercruise isn't so more stretch and equivalent to the cheaper Challenge PC or HMF.
Dimension Polyant CB is high tencity and degrades a lot less than all the Challenge dacrons in UV. We are currently testing super cruise on UV and about a dozen others.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Kestrahl

Dimension Polyant CB is high tencity and degrades a lot less than all the Challenge dacrons in UV. We are currently testing super cruise on UV and about a dozen others.

Be interested to see what results you come up with. Whilst it is only one sail I was quite disappointed with the 6.9oz Supercruise Genoa our yacht came with, especially the amount the previous owner paid for it. Made in 2001, by 2009 had been back twice for repairs before being replaced in 2012.

Kelkara, I regret buying a 140% Genoa, next time it will be much smaller, in the 110-120% range and aimed at a narrower wind speed window rather than trying to do everything with one sail. Do you really need a 135% Genoa? suppose it depends on how big your jib is and the cloth weight.


Pete

[JPA Cate]

As long as 30 knots is the critical point for Kelkara, roll up the 135 all the way, maybe even from 25 hard on the wind, and go with the inner sail.

Ann

[CarlF]

A couple of great pages by Mack Sails

Sail Cloth – Mack Sails

Sails – Mack Sails

[james247]

Originally Posted by Kestrahl

Its a bit tough to figure out all the different dacrons.
Challenge High Mod is high tenacity polyester - less stretch
Supercruise isn't so more stretch and equivalent to the cheaper Challenge PC or HMF.
Dimension Polyant CB is high tencity and degrades a lot less than all the Challenge dacrons in UV. We are currently testing super cruise on UV and about a dozen others.

Personally I love triradial cut sails in exotic mixes of laminated cloth. The sail so can be so flat like a blade for windward sailing.
I was lucky enough to chat with Rolly Tasker some years ago in his Thai loft. We owned sister boats at one time.
Over time people came and went and sails arrived to be replaced. Hoist and foot length position of mitre are much easier to duplicate from an old sail.
Rolly listened to the owners of the old sail and asked some simple questions.
Where have you come from where are you going. Do you change heady dies often. Do you reef the heady on a furled.
Then I saw the magic simply the amount of belly in the sails. The computor did the rest.
I think for most serious cruisers modern dacrons are all you need. They can be cut differently and be of different weights. Find a sailmaker and chat with him while he sews some cloths be a bit useful to him and have an honest chat.
Time well spent
If you live in a trade wind area with days of 25 to 30 knots then light sails aren't for you. But in summer with 5 to 10 knots you will wish for a lighter boat and lighter sails. Life is a compromise.

[TheThunderbird]

Genoa 110% max