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Old 13-09-2015, 19:07   #16
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Re: New Sails for Hylas 54 - a maze of chioces!

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Members of the Hylas List Serve:

We are in the process of selecting new sails for our Hylas 54 with in mast furling. I am soliciting your help if you have any knowledge or personal experience with this. We have talked to UK, North, and Quantum. We are leaning towards a radial main because we are told that they stretch less. Our current main has some trouble when coming out of the slot in the mast due to its stretch. We don't know how old our current main is -- we have owned her for 5 years, and we assume that the sails are about 8 years old.

We are interested in the multi-layered cloths, but have been told by one maker who wants to sell us a straight 10.5 oz poly cloth that multi-level cloths mildew.

Any thoughts on cloth, cut, or sail-makers would be much appreciated.
Take a look at the Elvstrom Fatfurl sails. Being used on new Hallberg-Rassy's. Verticle battens
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Old 13-09-2015, 19:55   #17
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Re: New Sails for Hylas 54 - a maze of chioces!

Just walk the docks and see if you can find a laminate sail that's more than 5 years old on an offshore boat. When I started cruising in the late '70's, a sail from a top loft like Hood or Doyle was expected to hold its shape for 10 years.

I agree with the previous poster that you should call Mack about the Marblehead woven dacron cloth. It's head and shoulders above other woven dacron. Do read this previously mentioned link.

Sail Cloth

Finally, have any furling sails treated with Sailkote lubricant. It's remarkable how much easier they furl (with less chafe too).

Sail Washing, McLube Sailkote, Prevent Sail Mildew
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Old 14-09-2015, 06:55   #18
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Re: New Sails for Hylas 54 - a maze of chioces!

Paul, our 2003 North 3DL 140% Genoa is beginning to delam after 13 seasons. It still holds its shape and has been an outstanding sail in that respect. We did have a mold problem and had to sailcoat in 2004 and again in 2011. Marathon 3DL now is much the same product as in 2003. I am very interested in your experience with the Hood vectran. I read the specs for kuraray vectran and it is an ideal fiber, but looses strength with exposure to UV (400 hours 30%??). What protects the vectran threads from UV and how is the shapeholding of these crosscut sails?
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Old 14-09-2015, 07:47   #19
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Re: New Sails for Hylas 54 - a maze of chioces!

I agree with Paul, Vectran is the best but expensive. I had them on our previous boat and a friend had them on his 52 ft Irwin for 11 years. He sails almost every day.

Also agree Tom is an expert sail maker and service man, in fact, I brought our sails to Hood last Tuesday for service before heading south for the winter.
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Old 16-09-2015, 07:16   #20
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Re: New Sails for Hylas 54 - a maze of chioces!

Update..... Thanks to all your advice, we have made a decision.

We have decided to go with radial Hydranet for both main and Genoa. We loved working with both North and Quantum. Ultimately we decided to go with North, but we feel that either group would do a great job.

The reason we chose Hydranet was based on our need for a low-stretch solution that is very important for a boat of our size and weight. We considered laminates but ruled them out because we plan to circumnavigate -- and given that we'd be spending a lot of time in the tropics, we were concerned that despite laminate sail's great shape, the potential for mold and mildew ultimately was a determinant for us to go with non-laminated sails.
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Old 16-09-2015, 09:41   #21
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Re: New Sails for Hylas 54 - a maze of chioces!

Gary,
Congrats on the new sails....I think you'll be happy!

But, just curious....was there something that Mack Sails couldn't do for you, that was a deal breaker??

Fair winds..

John
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Old 16-09-2015, 10:38   #22
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Re: New Sails for Hylas 54 - a maze of chioces!

John, we are in Annapolis and went with a local sail-maker because we wanted to minimize potential problems with fit. Johnathan from North spent three hours on our boat measuring (including our deck sheer, track locations, sheeting angles, track diameters, etc....) and making recommendations that might improve performance. I assume that we paid a bit more, but for us the personal service was important.

Gary
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Old 16-09-2015, 11:41   #23
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Re: New Sails for Hylas 54 - a maze of chioces!

Gary,
Cool, sounds like North has you all fixed up!

Just an FYI for others, Mack can (and does) the same.

Fair winds..

John
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Old 16-09-2015, 13:03   #24
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Re: New Sails for Hylas 54 - a maze of chioces!

Gary, one thing about Hydranet that I don't think has been mentioned: Our Hydranet Radial mainsail, made from a mix of 10, 8 and 7 oz weights is extremely stiff, and is a bitch to flake on the boom, even with a boom bag/lazy jacks. It is now approaching two years of usage, and it is slowly getting more supple, but we've had many a struggle with it! It is also a lot more bulky when flaked, and the bag, made for a Dacron saill, doesn't fit well.

But the shape is beautiful, including when reefed, and we love it (except when trying to tame it!).

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Old 17-09-2015, 07:08   #25
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Re: New Sails for Hylas 54 - a maze of chioces!

I sail a Nauta 54', 26tonnes, say 53,000lbs, cutter rig

I found she sails fantastic with full mainsail and innerstay jib, under F5+ so i decided that a new main is the first sail to be renewed after 10+ years
Main is triradial cut laminated dacron... great make by the time.

I met a guy in Italy... he is the sole rep of BANKS SAILS in Italy, and incidentally he has won the Middle Sea Race last year (60% boats retired)....and participated Olympics time ago...

Dacron must be interewaved with Dyneema, to get stability of form.

However, dacron must be doubled and reinforced, resulting in a thicker, heavier produce, rippable, and less resistant overall. Hydranet, Vectran...poly-HT.....are all brand names of this reinforced Dacron..... point is, it costs almost like a basic modern fibered sail!

Sails with oriented fibers are not calculated by weight/square ft, but by the amount of fiber changing seamlessly depending on where stress is more (closer fibers) or less.

Performance cruisers have a cover of taffeta, to protect from chafing... racing sails have none.
BANKS is reportedly the only one with taffeta layer in the MIDDLE, resulting is a sail surface which is totally water-proof, which also means no sand, no dirty deposits, etc.
Indeed taffeta absorbs a terrific amount of water!

Laminated sails are seamless, with no reinforcement pads or patchwork, they weight much less (11.2 vs 15.5, in proportion)

On a 54', savings in weight could be 40+lbs, with a superior ability to get rolled smoothly....

FIBER: choice of color and type may vary.... but I understand that Dyneema is lighter, perfect under UV, and more tensile than others apart carbon fibers, which are the most delicate on bending forces, however.

Maybe difficult to forecast durability....as technology moves on, do we really need to keep a sail for 10+years and 50k nm, or more

We sailors.. yet wehave more care of our engines and chargers, than sails....

Choosing a sailmaker is like selecting your Taylor, who must be at reach every third year, for control, maintenance, upgrades.... therefore, if you sail blue waters, having a sailmaker with extensive reps around is a great plus :-)

Also, on a nice boat sails are our business card... :-)
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Old 17-09-2015, 07:22   #26
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Re: New Sails for Hylas 54 - a maze of chioces!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garyrubin View Post
Update..... Thanks to all your advice, we have made a decision.

We have decided to go with radial Hydranet for both main and Genoa. We loved working with both North and Quantum. Ultimately we decided to go with North, but we feel that either group would do a great job.

The reason we chose Hydranet was based on our need for a low-stretch solution that is very important for a boat of our size and weight. We considered laminates but ruled them out because we plan to circumnavigate -- and given that we'd be spending a lot of time in the tropics, we were concerned that despite laminate sail's great shape, the potential for mold and mildew ultimately was a determinant for us to go with non-laminated sails.
For future reference, How much will the new set of sails cost?
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Old 17-09-2015, 07:30   #27
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Re: New Sails for Hylas 54 - a maze of chioces!

Gary, can we get information of the final price per sqft please, for each sail?

Were you offered to consider a reefing line on genoa?

Do you really think that a 140%Genoa is best choice for deep sea, short handed cruising?? I ended up hating whatever exceeds 106% :-)
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Old 17-09-2015, 16:16   #28
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Re: New Sails for Hylas 54 - a maze of chioces!

I suggest you also consult hylasyachts.org which is an online community of Hylas owners. We also have an H54 (#28) here in the Great Lakes and will be shopping for new sails in 2 years when we head south


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Old 17-09-2015, 19:01   #29
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Re: New Sails for Hylas 54 - a maze of chioces!

Internal taffeta is readily available from most sail membrane manufacturers, as well as standard laminate sail cloth off the roll.
It is far from exclusive to Banks,



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Old 19-09-2015, 03:51   #30
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Re: New Sails for Hylas 54 - a maze of chioces!

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Internal taffeta is readily available from most sail membrane manufacturers, as well as standard laminate sail cloth off the roll.
It is far from exclusive to Banks,



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