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Old 28-10-2012, 15:53   #16
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Re: New Sails

Evans, which cloth are you referring to by the term "Spectra Laminate"?

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Old 28-10-2012, 18:03   #17
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Re: New Sails

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Evans, which cloth are you referring to by the term "Spectra Laminate"?

Cheers,

Jim
we have had sails of: Dimension-Polyant "DYS" - sails made by Quantum, and North "SRP" and "S" (dyneema gaterback) - sails made by North.

Sometime I am going to get one made of Cuben Fiber (Which is also spectra fiber based), perhaps a code zero, but I have not gotten around to it yet.

North tried to make us a 3dl using spectra strings, but their laminating process was too hot and melted the spectra, so we ended up using vectran strings.

BTW, just to complicate dockheads decision even more, Doyle also has a decent string cloth: Stratis Vectran
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Old 29-10-2012, 03:51   #18
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Re: New Sails

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I am in full sticker shock after getting a bid from North Sails for 31,000 pounds (about $50,000) -- WITHOUT VAT -- for a set of 3DL's, quite a bit over my budget.
Ouch I wonder if it is worth considering were sail fabrics will be in 10 years time. If current laminates last 6 years and Dacron say 10 years will the technology have moved along enough that in 10 years time we see more exotic fibres in Dacron and the life of laminates substantially extended.

Might be worth going down the hydranet/Vectron/Radian route now for main and genoa with a recut on the old genoa for more windy conditions. Then view to laminates later once they have extended the life of the fabrics.

Whilst I would have liked an expensive sail cloth I doubted we would have seen value for money so opted for a medium quality fabric, hope that was the right decision but only time will tell.

Pete
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Old 29-10-2012, 05:29   #19
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Re: New Sails

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Ouch I wonder if it is worth considering were sail fabrics will be in 10 years time. If current laminates last 6 years and Dacron say 10 years will the technology have moved along enough that in 10 years time we see more exotic fibres in Dacron and the life of laminates substantially extended.

Might be worth going down the hydranet/Vectron/Radian route now for main and genoa with a recut on the old genoa for more windy conditions. Then view to laminates later once they have extended the life of the fabrics.

Whilst I would have liked an expensive sail cloth I doubted we would have seen value for money so opted for a medium quality fabric, hope that was the right decision but only time will tell.

Pete
Well, you are lucky, Pete -- one place where more than anything cost goes up exponentially with boat size is the cost of sails.

You see, you don't really need an exotic fabric with sails of your size. As sails get bigger, the forces go up, exerted over longer expanses of cloth, and Dacron becomes less and less able to cope. One reason why the North 3DL sails quoted were so expensive was because they insisted that the "strings" should be carbon for those size sails. And those are their "3DL Marathon" cruising sails.

I will keep requesting proposals -- I'll try some of what Evans has suggested. I need to try to get the cost down to about $30,000. I don't think I'll try Hydranet -- although our Nick of Jedi is satisfied with his, I have read too much to indicate that they are really the worst of both worlds between woven and laminated, and they are not cheaper than laminated sails.

I might leave out the staysail and just leave what I've got -- another way to cut the budget a little.
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Old 29-10-2012, 05:56   #20
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Re: New Sails

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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
we have had sails of: Dimension-Polyant "DYS" - sails made by Quantum, and North "SRP" and "S" (dyneema gaterback) - sails made by North.

Interesting....

The cruising laminates suggested by my local Quantum loft were (in increasing levels of cost) the CDX 7 (by contender sailcloth) and "Fusion M" membrane sails (more $). I'm not sure what the "DYS" sails are but can ask them.

I've had no responses on my earlier thread, thus, can only conclude no one knows much about this material!
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Old 29-10-2012, 08:41   #21
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Re: New Sails

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
You see, you don't really need an exotic fabric with sails of your size. As sails get bigger, the forces go up, exerted over longer expanses of cloth, and Dacron becomes less and less able to cope. One reason why the North 3DL sails quoted were so expensive was because they insisted that the "strings" should be carbon for those size sails. And those are their "3DL Marathon" cruising sails.
Yes fair point, I had forgotten that. Good news is my new Genoa is ready for collection, flash to bang time 3 weeks. Pick it up Wed or Thu.

Pete
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Old 29-10-2012, 09:42   #22
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Re: New Sails

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Good news is my new Genoa is ready for collection, flash to bang time 3 weeks. Pick it up Wed or Thu.

Pete
Congratulations!!
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Old 29-10-2012, 09:46   #23
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Re: New Sails

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Was the price the same?
Yes. We had to substitute one dacron-scrim laminate for another because that was what the Sweden loft used, and importing the other cloth would have been prohibitively expensive, but I was assured it was of equal quality.
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Old 29-10-2012, 10:07   #24
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Re: New Sails

When we needed a new main last year, we went with HydraNet. It's a beautiful sail and we love it. It was made over in Sri Lanka, then we had the Ullman loft in Deltaville, VA finish it. It's so much better than Dacron!

We've used tape drive sails for years and they're great. That's all we used to have on our monohull over the many years we were racing it.

I'd recommend you contact Tom Barry with Sail Technologies -- tom@sail-tech.com. He's given us some great prices over the years on sails. You can get tape-drive or HydraNet through him.
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Old 30-10-2012, 03:12   #25
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Re: New Sails

I agree with ATOLL. I was also looking for cheaper priced sails than you normally get quoted. I found a great site a month or so back. The prices are very affordable. I contacted them because they had a new roller furling genoa, a perfect fit for my Catalina 320. The sail is brand new and made by Rolly Tasker in their Thailand factory. They have been building cruising sails for a long time.
The freight was reasonable and having checked my situation with duty etc. I ordered the sail through Paypal.
Hey Presto the sail arrived at my door within a week and what a beauty. I have since fitted it to my boat. A good looking sail and well made. I am very happy. If you are in need of a sail for your boat this year check them out The Sails Shop you may be lucky.
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Old 31-10-2012, 08:49   #26
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Re: New Sails

I'm in shock --

just got a second price quote -- this time from Doyle -- and it's even more expensive than the North quote!!

FFS.

They are recommending something called DV36T -- a radial Vectran laminate. They did not want to make anything with Spectra -- say that in this size, the creep is too great.

Argh.
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Old 31-10-2012, 08:54   #27
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Re: New Sails

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Originally Posted by rockerdar View Post
When we needed a new main last year, we went with HydraNet. It's a beautiful sail and we love it. It was made over in Sri Lanka, then we had the Ullman loft in Deltaville, VA finish it. It's so much better than Dacron!

We've used tape drive sails for years and they're great. That's all we used to have on our monohull over the many years we were racing it.

I'd recommend you contact Tom Barry with Sail Technologies -- tom@sail-tech.com. He's given us some great prices over the years on sails. You can get tape-drive or HydraNet through him.
Thanks -- this is really useful. Can you say more about how the HydraNet sails compare to the Tape Drive ones in real usage?

I have heard conflicting reports about them. Some people say that they are the worst of both worlds -- stretch out just like Dacron, since they have a crimp in them, and there isn't enough Dyneema in them to hold the whole cloth together, yet as expensive as laminate sails. Others -- like our Nick of Jedi -- love them.

What has your experience been?
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Old 31-10-2012, 09:27   #28
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Re: New Sails

Be careful about HydraNet. Their strongest cloth, HN480, is rated for boats just a tad smaller than yours. Here's their chart: Hydra NetŪ - Sailcloth Technology by DIMENSION-POLYANT - Sailcloth and laminates for high performance sailing and polyestersailcloth for surf

This is why you're paying the big money. The loads on large sails require different cloth than boats with less than 1,000 square feet of sail area would use. Big-boat sailcloth is big-boat expensive. But you'll stretch your way through little-boat cloths within a year.
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Old 31-10-2012, 09:33   #29
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Re: New Sails

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Be careful about HydraNet. Their strongest cloth, HN480, is rated for boats just a tad smaller than yours. Here's their chart: Hydra NetŪ - Sailcloth Technology by DIMENSION-POLYANT - Sailcloth and laminates for high performance sailing and polyestersailcloth for surf

This is why you're paying the big money. The loads on large sails require different cloth than boats with less than 1,000 square feet of sail area would use. Big-boat sailcloth is big-boat expensive. But you'll stretch your way through little-boat cloths within a year.
I thought $30k WAS "big money". Hah! Was I ever wrong, as it is turning out so far So far looking like close to double that
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Old 31-10-2012, 09:37   #30
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Re: New Sails

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I thought $30k WAS "big money". Hah! Was I ever wrong, as it is turning out so far So far looking like close to double that
Despite my best efforts, it's hard to feel sad for a guy sailing a Moody 54.
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