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Old 12-07-2016, 18:43   #1
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New Sailor Question: Winches

This is probably an easy question but I can't find the answer on the internet.

When I took my ASA 101 class our boat had winches that would lock. It had this piece of metal that stuck out with a lip that we would wrap the line around and tug so that it would lock. This was mainly with the jib sheets. It looked like this one.

However I recently bought an old catalina 22 sailboat and its winches don't lock. Everytime we trim the jib sheets we need to tie off the line or else it comes loose.

Am I doing something wrong or is this a certain type of winch?
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Old 12-07-2016, 20:14   #2
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Re: New Sailor Question: Winches

Those "locking" winches are called self tailing. They're pretty slick, but older boats typically don't have them unless they've been refit at some time. You're not doing anything wrong.
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Old 12-07-2016, 20:22   #3
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Re: New Sailor Question: Winches

There should be a cleat of some sort aft of each winch for you to tie off your sheets to. I'm not sure when the first self tailing and locking winches were introduced but many or most of us learned to sail on winches like yours before that fancy stuff came along. Like electronics and stuff. On your boat there should be a jam cleat (and maybe a horn cleat) just inboard of the winches that does this. You have to haul in a bit on the sheet as you 'jam' it into the cleat. If your sheets are too worn they might not grab so well.

Make sure your cleats are in good shape and solidly attached so they can safely handle a heavy load.
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Old 12-07-2016, 23:19   #4
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Re: New Sailor Question: Winches

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Originally Posted by Brob2 View Post
There should be a cleat of some sort aft of each winch for you to tie off your sheets to. I'm not sure when the first self tailing and locking winches were introduced but many or most of us learned to sail on winches like yours before that fancy stuff came along.
I asked the local font of all knowledge, who lives aboard on F dock. He said, if I recorded his wisdom correctly:


* single-speed top cranked winches became popular after the 1903 America's Cup, in which they were used for trimming halyard and sheets. Before that, snubbing winches (no cranking, just a ratchet) and bottom cranked winches were the cutting edge.


* multi-speed top cranked winches became popular in the 1960s after, you guessed it, they were used in an America's Cup. Most point to LewMar, the company started by Len Lewery and Les March, and the key inventor being Henry Shepherd, an expert on helicopter gearboxes who joined Lewmar.


* self-tailing top cranked (and multispeed) winches appeared in the early 1970s, around 1972. Initially quite a variety of designs, including winches with a jockey wheel that held the tail to the winch drum, winches with top and bottom jaws around the tailing channel moving at different speeds, winches with top and bottom jaws that clamped together, and so on. The Font of All Knowledge reckoned that Barient was the first self-tailing winch looking much like what we take for granted today, with all the other winch companies coming up with minor variations and improvements of the Barient self-tailing jaws. And the FoAK reckoned that 1974-75 was the first big year for self-tailing winches.


* the 11/16" double square star socket on the top of the spindle of a top-cranked winch became an international standard for the major winch manufacturers in 1972. Several different sockets before that, including 5/8" square and 11/16" square.
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Old 13-07-2016, 09:29   #5
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Re: New Sailor Question: Winches

What you had on the ASA boat was the "self-tailing" kind. A definite upgrade. You can replace the older winches with the newer but they are pricey. You boat will have smaller winches so it won't be as costly as for bigger boats.

I have mostly self-tailing winches but have two very large staysail winches that are not. Replacing them with ST winches would probably be about $6-7K if I put them in myself (Andersen winches - I love them).
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Old 13-07-2016, 09:46   #6
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Re: New Sailor Question: Winches

I added the rubber self tailers that fit on the top of the winch to my first sailboat. worked decent enough and were cheap.
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Old 13-07-2016, 09:53   #7
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Re: New Sailor Question: Winches

The winches on my 1974 Bristol 27 are like yours. There's a cleat just aft of the winch (as stated above) where you cleat off the line once you are satisfied with the position of your sail(s)

Mine even has the old flat winch handles.......

My last sailboat was a 2001 Nacra F-17 with a spinlock for the Spinnaker Halyard, cam cleats for the spinnaker sheets on either hull, and cam cleats for the main and jib.

I adjusted to the technology of a 40 year old boat and you can too!
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Old 13-07-2016, 13:03   #8
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Re: New Sailor Question: Winches

Also, dirty Winches dont block, as cleats stick... or, springs can be broken
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Old 13-07-2016, 13:27   #9
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Re: New Sailor Question: Winches

I have jam cleats (like the one at the link below) aft of my sheet winches... one wrap and jam the tag end.

WEST MARINE European Jam Cleat | West Marine
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Old 13-07-2016, 13:58   #10
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Re: New Sailor Question: Winches

I may be misunderstanding your question but if you mean by "not locking" that the winch turns in both direction, then probably the pawls are stuck down. Take the drum off, clean and lightly grease every thing, make sure the pawls are moving freely, and if you can get them, replace the pawls springs.
Good luck
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Old 13-07-2016, 14:26   #11
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Re: New Sailor Question: Winches

Sorry to tell you but if your instructor left you with such a
Question then certainly there are more vital things that you are missing therefore suggest that you attend a proper class
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Old 13-07-2016, 14:41   #12
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Re: New Sailor Question: Winches

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Originally Posted by markcc13 View Post
However I recently bought an old catalina 22 sailboat and its winches don't lock. Everytime we trim the jib sheets we need to tie off the line or else it comes loose.

Am I doing something wrong or is this a certain type of winch?
No, you are doing fine.

The guy with the Catalina 22 in the slip near mine has installed some cam cleats just aft and inboard of the cleat.

Barton Marine 70100 - Mini 'K' Cam Cleat

That's a great idea.

I just like the old way..............which is one of the reasons I have an old full keel beauty of a boat
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Old 13-07-2016, 14:48   #13
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Re: New Sailor Question: Winches

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNMARDALL View Post
I may be misunderstanding your question but if you mean by "not locking" that the winch turns in both direction, then probably the pawls are stuck down. Take the drum off, clean and lightly grease every thing, make sure the pawls are moving freely, and if you can get them, replace the pawls springs.
Good luck
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I could be wrong, but I think he is merely speaking of using the jaws on the top of the winch like a jam cleat.

https://captnmike.com/2010/04/22/how...on-a-sailboat/
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Old 13-07-2016, 16:41   #14
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Re: New Sailor Question: Winches

This is off topic, but either it comes from a frequent poster or several of them:

“'Only a fool learns from his own mistakes. The wise man learns from the mistakes of others.' - Otto von Bismarck"

In my opinion, only a fool limits himself to one method of learning, and ignores opportunities that may present themselves unexpectedly.
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Old 13-07-2016, 16:57   #15
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New Sailor Question: Winches

Look up the tugboat hitch also called a lightermans hitch. No cleat needed. We use this for halyards if we don't want to run them down to our fife rail and use it for the Jib sheet when the cleat adjacent the sheet winch is borrowed by another line. Also use it for anchor rode on the windlass.

http://www.animatedknots.com/lightermans/#ScrollPoint


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