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Old 14-09-2017, 08:53   #1
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New running rigging / rope and wire halyard

Hey all,

I'm replacing about 80% of my running rigging (4 new halyards, 3 new sheets, jib furler line, 2 new outhauls). I'm curious to hear vendor suggestions (I'm US-based). Are there on-line direct vendors you all have used?

Also, On my mizzenmast I've got a rope-wire halyard. Any reason this can't be replaced with just a low-stretch rope halyard? The wire section is a PITA to deal with.

Thanks in advance for any insight.
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Old 14-09-2017, 09:21   #2
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Re: New running rigging / rope and wire halyard

Defender Marine.. although the warehouse is local to me they are a huge online operation.

and nope, get rid of the wire/rope... but mebbe check your sheaves as wire does a number on them
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Old 14-09-2017, 09:26   #3
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Re: New running rigging / rope and wire halyard

Lots of vendors online, but where to go depends on what you want as far as DIY, price and rope type. Are you splicing yourself, or do you need a rigger to do it? High tech or basic cruiser double braid.... or a good mix depending on use?

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Old 14-09-2017, 09:40   #4
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Re: New running rigging / rope and wire halyard

Thanks for the responses. I've ordered tons from Defender, but never looked into their rigging.

I would rather have a pro rigger do the splicing. I'd say I'm looking for performance cruising. I replaced a halyard with Dyneema and I'm a big fan of the super low stretch for that application. For sheets I'd say regular double braid would do just fine... right?
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Old 14-09-2017, 10:56   #5
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Re: New running rigging / rope and wire halyard

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Originally Posted by Peregrine1983 View Post
For sheets I'd say regular double braid would do just fine... right?
We've used standard xls and a spectra cored for sheets and noticed no real difference. Sheets on our size boats are typically sized for hand feel, and stretch doesn't come into effect too much with our type of sailing (dacron sail type boats).

If you know someone with a well used Port Supply account, West Marine is actually really cheap for some rigging (standing in particular). Defender.com sales are great, but you missed the big spring sale when they are the cheapest. Cajun ropes has lower priced double braid and a spectra cored line that is fine for cruising. Fishiersupply has awesome pricing for someone with an account, but they don't splice (I don't think).

These are DIY type suggestions that have worked for me. A real rigger might be suggested if you're looking for more performance related ideas.

Oh, my only rope suggestion is to get Regatta braid for the mainsheet if you ever trim by hand.... it's heaven!

Matt

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Old 14-09-2017, 11:51   #6
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Re: New running rigging / rope and wire halyard

Awesome. Thanks Matt.

I'm actually on Cajun Ropes site now checking it out. And it looks like Defender currently has a minor markdown on the Regatta braid. Good to know.

Also, per Mystic's suggestion I'll have a look at the mizzenmast sheaves when I run the new set of ropes.

Really appreciate it.
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Old 14-09-2017, 12:03   #7
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Re: New running rigging / rope and wire halyard

Take a look at Fishier supply. The Marlow standard double braid is awesome stuff and if I remember correctly, priced really well too. Great for sheets and reef lines. Their Regatta is the cheapest usually too... they're free shipping over $99 too.

If you're in a work yard with other sailors, you can always find someone that can do class one double braid eye splices. I do them often for just a few bucks (dinner and drinks).

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Old 14-09-2017, 15:03   #8
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Re: New running rigging / rope and wire halyard

Thanks Matt really appreciate it. If you were in NYC I'd take you up on the offer! I'm watching youtube videos now on how to do splices... although I suspect I'll leave this one to an expert for now.
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Old 14-09-2017, 15:34   #9
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Re: New running rigging / rope and wire halyard

Why splice??? Tie your halyards on with a Buntline Hitch. Easy to change the wear point on raw halyard and you can end for end it to even out UV exposure. Use dedicated sheets for the jibs either with a cow hitch or Brummel splice. Especially the Brummel splice negates any tendency for the halyard to hang up on the shrouds. Only place I'd use a shackle is on the spinnaker sheet, might need to blow that sheet.
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Old 14-09-2017, 16:19   #10
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Re: New running rigging / rope and wire halyard

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Why splice??? Tie your halyards on with a Buntline Hitch. Easy to change the wear point on raw halyard and you can end for end it to even out UV exposure. Use dedicated sheets for the jibs either with a cow hitch or Brummel splice. Especially the Brummel splice negates any tendency for the halyard to hang up on the shrouds. Only place I'd use a shackle is on the spinnaker sheet, might need to blow that sheet.
Soft shackles used in conjunction with eye splices tend to work quite well for most of the above applications too.

As to cordage, unless you're in a rush, every year come January, all rigging suppliers & rigging shops offer big discounts. Both on cordage, & splicing.

Another tip is that it's usually a good bit cheaper to buy line by the spool, even if that means you wind up with enough for a spare halyard or set of sheets. Or split a spool with a friend. And often times if you find an inexpensive source of dyneema, like say Amsteel Blue. You can add inexpensive covers/jackets yourself, thus making "DIY Warpspeed" for much less than the real thing. SV Jedi did this a little while back, & saved a good bit of coin. His thread on it's worth reading.

Also, search the sites of all of the major rigging vendors & chandleries for deals & closeouts. As several times a year many of them have high dollar cordage, dirt cheap.
Defender.com, APSltd.com, Pyacht.com, VelaSailingSupply.com, MauriProsailing.com, FisheriesSupply.com etc.

And guys, please, please add to the above list, including for non US based sources. As I know that in other parts of the world Dyneema is quite expensive as compared to in the US. Concerning which Seaworthy Lass found a new type/source of HMWPE in Europe. It's in her recent posts on Jordan Series Drogues.
Good sources of inexpensive cordage benefit us all. Especially given the cost of running rigging if you're replacing much of it at once.

Note that other than external chafe, chafe within a line is what wears it out the most quickly (UV aside). And much of this chafe comes from fibers within the line rubbing on each other as it stretches with load. So some lower stretch, high tech/high modulus cordage wears longer than might seem apparent in various applications. Plus spectra/dyneema is quite slippery & chafe resistant, adding to it's longevity.

One other tip is to by some Maxi Jacket II, & paint it onto any high wear areas on your lines. Such as where it goes over sheaves, through clutches, & around cleats. Running rigging, & dock lines, etc. It really boosts wear resistance, & can be reapplied when required.


EDIT: Almost without question, someone at your marina, or a friend of a friend, is more than competent enough to do fairly professional splicing for you. For some of us it's quite theraputic, & the "wages" via a home cooked meal, a bottle of good rum, or a few pounds of chocolate covered expresso beans, make such favors worth doing even more.
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Old 14-09-2017, 16:25   #11
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Re: New running rigging / rope and wire halyard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine1983 View Post
Thanks for the responses. I've ordered tons from Defender, but never looked into their rigging.

I would rather have a pro rigger do the splicing. I'd say I'm looking for performance cruising. I replaced a halyard with Dyneema and I'm a big fan of the super low stretch for that application. For sheets I'd say regular double braid would do just fine... right?
Defender offers a splicing service if you are not comfortable splicing your own lines. I've always done my own splicing but used their service on a couple halyards this spring. Their splices are flawless.
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Old 15-09-2017, 08:42   #12
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Re: New running rigging / rope and wire halyard

We replaced our wire halyards with 6mm Dyneema back in 2011 during a refit/rerig in Phuket. We've since sailed Thailand, the Medd and Adriatic, and now the Caribb (all tropical, with lots of sun). The Dyneema has worked flawlessly, shows no signs of deterioration, no chafe, and no issues at all. We did inspect our sheeves, decided they were OK, after 22 years, and they're still in operation From our experience-a way better system than the wire!
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Old 15-09-2017, 09:30   #13
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Re: New running rigging / rope and wire halyard

If you replace wire-rope halyards with all rope, you should replace the sheaves. Sheaves meant for tail-spliced wire-rope halyards will chew up all-rope halyards. This advice I got from R&W Ropes in New Bedford.
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Old 15-09-2017, 12:11   #14
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Re: New running rigging / rope and wire halyard

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If you replace wire-rope halyards with all rope, you should replace the sheaves. Sheaves meant for tail-spliced wire-rope halyards will chew up all-rope halyards. This advice I got from R&W Ropes in New Bedford.
Second this, but it depends on the builder. Our boat had wire to rope halyards, but they installed u-shaped rope sheaves. We switched to covered spectra/dyneema (covered up to the "wire portion") 3 years and 10k miles ago and no issues.

Spectra halyards are much smaller and lighter than double braid and, at least in my experience, much less prone to halyard slap.

Soft Shackles

Great site with lots of information showing all the fun stuff you can do with single braid spectra/dyneema.
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