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Old 07-08-2012, 23:30   #1
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need advice on my forestay

Hi All

I need to gets some opinions on my forestay. It looks like its unwinding but given that its swaged I don't know if this is possible. I've attached a couple of photos and I would love to get some feedback before I go and buy a new stay if its not needed.
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Old 07-08-2012, 23:36   #2
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Re: need advice on my forestay

It looks like the wire end of the turn-buckle has been turned to adjust tension in the stay rather than the body of the turnbuckle.
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Old 07-08-2012, 23:53   #3
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Re: need advice on my forestay

+1 for Adelie. It does look like somebody adjusted the stay's tension at the turnbuckle and did not hold the the "stay stud" so it would not rotate as they turned the turnbuckle.

This puts an "unwinding" force on the actual wire in the stay causing it to "open up."

What to do about it? If the wire does not spring back to the closed up condition when the wire is relaxed after removing the stud from the turnbuckle - then I would suggest replacing the wire as it has been compromised.

A good "how to" source for standing rigging can be found in the video "Tuning Your Rig" by Brion Toss (sort of the "Guru" of boat rigging) at: Brion Toss Yacht Riggers, Sailboat Rigging:VDs & CD's & Videos
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Old 08-08-2012, 00:11   #4
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Re: need advice on my forestay

Yep, i will throw my lot in with the above....
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Old 08-08-2012, 00:29   #5
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Re: need advice on my forestay

OK so that leads to my next question. If the stay has not been held when tensioning it, could a short term solution be to crack the locking nut off then turn he stay back to the untwisted state then lock it all up again.

I know thus is not ideal however I need to sail 350nm to get to the rigger
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Old 08-08-2012, 01:49   #6
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Re: need advice on my forestay

If you need to sail 350 miles to get to a rigger, you don't have much choice !
If you crack the locking nut off and the swage turns easily and winds up the wire, its probably OK. If you have to force it, then it probably isn't.
But what do you do then ?
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Old 08-08-2012, 03:02   #7
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Re: need advice on my forestay

1. Either my eyes are no good or there is more to this than what you suggest. In the 2 photos you included in the original mail it appears that the lay of the wire is different: left-hand in the first photo and right-hand in the second. If this is the case it is not he same wire.
If my eyes are no good (and it is the same wire) are the photos by any chance one of the top end and one of the bottom?
2. The outside 12 strands lay one way and the inside 6 lay the other way. If the outside strands have opened up what has happened to the inside ones? All this to say you won't wind up the (outside) wires.
3. The outside strands are loose whereas the inside are tight so all the load is being taken on the 7 inside wires. They will pull out in time ('when?' is the big question).

Prudence says have a new stay shipped in to you (or do you have an inner or solent stay as a backup if the forestay lets go.) If you MUST sail the 350 miles, don't. Motor if at all possible.

The good news is that cruising boats are over-rigged so you have a good safety margin (is this a cruising boat?) which is on your side if you meet some bad weather.

Good luck.
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Old 08-08-2012, 03:21   #8
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Re: need advice on my forestay

If you attempt to re-tighten it then wash with oil first, cooking oil will do, to get all water out.
Don't run with it slacker than normal, count turns carefully as you release, wind it tightish, and re-tighten to get the same tension in it.
Loads on the forestay are at their worst working into wind and swell. sailing downwind should be fine, just take enough fuel and pre-plan a point of no-return if the winds turn against you. Adding low throttle running to storm reefed DOWNWIND sailing will reduce your passage. Pick the days, get the best forecast you can.
Plan be is to fly bits out and replace. Strip out the old one, measure, cut off the old swages and send to supplier so you get exactly the right replacement. First time. And find just the right spanners for fitting the replacement before you post the old ones.
Order seizing wire with the new forestay!
Good luck. It's horrible not knowing your rig is safe.
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Old 08-08-2012, 03:44   #9
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Re: need advice on my forestay

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dame.n.Jess View Post
OK so that leads to my next question. If the stay has not been held when tensioning it, could a short term solution be to crack the locking nut off then turn he stay back to the untwisted state then lock it all up again.

I know thus is not ideal however I need to sail 350nm to get to the rigger
The wire has taken a set. Loosening the nut and rotating the stud part will just put an untwisting load on the jam nut as it wants to untwist now. It won't increase the structural integrity of the forestay to twist it now.

Presuming it has been this way for a while and you only have 350 miles to go I would simply go, with the caveat that you know the state of the wire and you will be conscious to keep the loads down by not pushing the rig hard.

If it were me I would also attach the spin halyard to the fitting at the peak and winch that tight as a "backup" until I replaced the forestay.
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Old 08-08-2012, 05:09   #10
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Re: need advice on my forestay

When did you first notice this problem? Have seen a jammed foil, over cranked with a winch, do this to wire.
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Old 08-08-2012, 07:57   #11
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Re: need advice on my forestay

Quote:
Originally Posted by david samuelson View Post
1. Either my eyes are no good or there is more to this than what you suggest. In the 2 photos you included in the original mail it appears that the lay of the wire is different: left-hand in the first photo and right-hand in the second. If this is the case it is not he same wire.
If my eyes are no good (and it is the same wire) are the photos by any chance one of the top end and one of the bottom?
Good eye. I see it too on the thumbnail views.

However, if you click on the photos they both look the same. So it's an artifact of turning the full size photo's into thumbnails.
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Old 08-08-2012, 08:12   #12
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Re: need advice on my forestay

When you try to fix this mess keep in mind that turning the wire will have half the effect of turning the turnbuckle body, the turnbuckle takes up threads at top and bottom when it is turned. So whatever your turn count is rewinding the forestay and coincidentally loosening it at the same time, when you re-tighten the forestay by turning the body of the turnbuckle the turn count should be about half the loosening count of just turning the forestay.

+1 for DavidSam - the inner lay twisting the other way has probably been over-tightened and may be damaged.

+1 for Ex-Calif - Extra halyard or 2 shackled to the foredeck to support the mast in cast of breakage, though a wire-luff sail would probably do to.
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Old 08-08-2012, 21:46   #13
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Re: need advice on my forestay

Ok, so the consensus seams to be the stay is shot and im risking the mast. Based on this I have found a way to get a new stay before we sail.

Problem solved, thanks for the advice everyone.

Regards
Damien
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