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Old 04-10-2016, 18:35   #1
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Monitor vane: master gear pops out

My vintage Monitor vane has a bronze gear set that converts deflection of the air vane into a change of water paddle angle of incidence. The lower half of this gear jumps out of the upper part, the result is that air vane is skewed one way, the paddle - another way, and the teeth are disengaged.

In other words, the gear instead of looking like this:


\../\../\../\../
.\//\\//\\//\\//\
../..\/..\/..\/..\


looks like this:


\../\../\../\../
.\/..\/..\/..\//\../\../\../\
............../..\/..\/..\/..\


I hope, I'm making sense.

I've looked at it, and the only thought I have so far is to add a plastic spacer to lift the lower gear by a millimeter or two (~1/16" for the imperially inclined). Is that the right way to solve the problem?
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Old 04-10-2016, 22:09   #2
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Re: Monitor vane: master gear pops out

Doubt it. Give Scanmar a call and they'll advise you. Perhaps a rebuild kit will help, maybe not. Be aware that they take trade-ins and are very generous. That's what I did and I couldn't be happier to be the owner of a new unit and rid of an old unit which was in need of a major rebuild after a long hard life. The Monitor vanes are superb.
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Old 04-10-2016, 23:11   #3
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Re: Monitor vane: master gear pops out

I bought a pre Monitor that was built out of 304. I know not everyone has the big bucks for a new unit. Mine was all worn out and it sounds like yours is too. Likely it's a combination of the roller bearings and thrust washers. I believe using the thrust washers, you can adjust the spacing of the gear mesh. When they wear out the gears move away from one another. It's a bear putting the needle bearings in while trying to assemble. I ended up using shaving cream to hold them in place, then washing it away...good luck.
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Old 04-10-2016, 23:21   #4
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Re: Monitor vane: master gear pops out

I slid a split HDPE washer between the servo rudder carrier and the lower bevel gear on my old Flemming windvane to reduce the backlash and slop in the bevel gears. It worked well for a few thousand miles. YMMV

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Old 05-10-2016, 10:28   #5
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Re: Monitor vane: master gear pops out

I had one back in the '90's and the gear lash was controlled by the number of washers on the upper gear shaft.
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Old 05-10-2016, 10:58   #6
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Re: Monitor vane: master gear pops out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
I bought a pre Monitor that was built out of 304. I know not everyone has the big bucks for a new unit. Mine was all worn out and it sounds like yours is too. Likely it's a combination of the roller bearings and thrust washers. I believe using the thrust washers, you can adjust the spacing of the gear mesh. When they wear out the gears move away from one another. It's a bear putting the needle bearings in while trying to assemble. I ended up using shaving cream to hold them in place, then washing it away...good luck.
Besides shaving cream, on some bearing types & sizes, you can use toothpaste. Rinsing it out when everything's assembed. And both of these bath products work fairly well on Harken hardware when it's time to replace bearings. Such as in older travelers, & genoa lead cars. Ditto on some mainsail track systems. And even various blocks.

How does one discern whether or not a unit is worn out, without bolting it onto the transom & testing it under high sailing loads? Meaning for maintenance purposes, or when looking at a used one, & evaluating if it's worth purchasing.
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Old 05-10-2016, 11:14   #7
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Re: Monitor vane: master gear pops out

Monitor windvanes work great when new. They do not tolerate wear and tear. They are not robust like an Aries. So with age expect gears popping off, chains jumping sprockets, circlips taking the big 6, etc. However having said that, the mechanically minded skipper can see where the wear and sloppiness is, and conjure up spacers, washers et al and keep it doing what it is supposed to do. For my money, a gear that is so costly, should be waaay more robust in the first place.
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Old 05-10-2016, 13:00   #8
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Re: Monitor vane: master gear pops out

I have a Sailomat 601 that I bought seized up and I mean SEIZED! Breing a Machinist/Toolmaker I can get anything apart. I replaced all the plastic bearinngs with Delrin AF, Rulon and Torlon plastics. Super high tech now.
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Old 06-10-2016, 14:16   #9
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Re: Monitor vane: master gear pops out

I have a second hand monitor I haven't used yet but I've emailed Scanmar a few times and purchased a couple of Circlips.

There is a full service kit you can buy($240 from memory) which may take up the slack in the gears. I questioned the movement slack available between the old bronze gears as well. (they sent me links to videos demonstrating movement). New monitors have stainless steel gears, not sure if you can buy these and retrofit them.

Tip from Scanmar was to bash the bronze gear in a vice to bend the gear you can get out easily back down to close the gear gap. I tried this while not using too much force, but don't think I moved it much if at all.

When removing 25mm pins to get other gear off you push a 25/1" piece of wooden dowel in behind it to keep the needle rollers in place.

Don't have more time to search for my correspondence with scanmar. I'll have a look tonight when I get home.
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Old 06-10-2016, 14:54   #10
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Re: Monitor vane: master gear pops out

> Don't have more time to search for my correspondence with scanmar. I'll have a look tonight when I get home.

That'd be awesome. I wrote them myself a couple of days ago, no response so far.
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Old 06-10-2016, 19:26   #11
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Re: Monitor vane: master gear pops out

Quote:
Originally Posted by holmek View Post
Monitor windvanes work great when new. They do not tolerate wear and tear. They are not robust like an Aries. So with age expect gears popping off, chains jumping.
What a load of ----
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Old 07-10-2016, 00:13   #12
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Re: Monitor vane: master gear pops out

So here's what Suzy from Scanmar had to say about my old 8 tooth gear set:

"The ring and pinion gears are a bit wiggly if the teeth are too deeply engaged there will be too much friction for your Monitor to work well.
I have attached a couple of short videos showing a factory setting of the ring pinion gears.
If your gears are disengaging, you may need to rebuild the pendulum. Typically the culprit is the Delrin washer at the bottom of the pendulum it wears or compresses over time and allows the ring gear to sit lower than it should.
Another place to look is at the ring gear. If you have the first generation 8-tooth bronze gear set, the flange between the collar and the teeth on the ring gear can bend down a bit. To fix it, you can disengage the gears by unscrewing the actuator shaft (part no. 57) from the threaded clevis (part no. 80). Move the pinion gear upside-down and out of the way. Tap the ring gear back up into place with a mallet. This only works with the first generation gears. The 13-tooth sets have a much thicker flange and do not bend."

Part references can be found here:
http://www.fujiyachts.net/manuals/Mo...%20Version.pdf

the Ring gear is relatively easy to remove and attempt to bash it back into shape(as I said I don't think I really moved it, but I haven't actually sailed with it so not sure it needs bashing :-))

The pinion gear is the one to have to push a piece of dowel in as you remove the shaft. It's all in the manual.
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Old 08-10-2016, 11:44   #13
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Re: Monitor vane: master gear pops out

Thanks a bunch guys I have the same problem with mine. Can we get some response from Scanmar in this thread?
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Old 08-10-2016, 21:48   #14
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Re: Monitor vane: master gear pops out

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Originally Posted by 1Sunseeker View Post
Thanks a bunch guys I have the same problem with mine. Can we get some response from Scanmar in this thread?
Easy enough to contact them yourself.

http://www.selfsteer.com/contactUs/index.php
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