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Old 24-05-2013, 10:54   #1
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Misc. deck HW questions

I have a few miscellaneous deck questions that I don’t think warrant a separate thread for each one. Hopefully the guys and gals with the right knowledge will find them in this single thread.

I would like to have my lazarettes sealed well. What recommendations do folks have for replacement gasket material and latch hardware? I want a latch to pull down hard when I want it sealed, but also not trap me below if it accidently swings closed.

Similar question for my anchor locker hatch. It currently has “door button” (as per page 190 Defender 2012 catalog) latches that look unsuitable even from new as nothing prevents the mechanism from vibrating to the open position. I am willing to hack the fiberglass as required to get the hatch properly restrained.

Speaking of anchor locker, there is no attachment for the inboard end of the rode. Nothing about the construction of the anchor locker suggests it is even remotely strong enough to support these kinds of potential forces. So option one looks like glassing in some structure, which will be a highly unpleasant task due to the access issues. Option two would be really careful to tie off to a cleat before usage, but I tend to be unlucky with this sort of approach and can see my anchor and rode going down. Better ideas?

I have new Lewmar Ocean 40CST winches. I was suprised to find that the mounting base is weakly magnetic, so I assume stainless steel mounting hardware is the correct choice even though the material is of a yellowish colour. I thought these things were chrome plated over bronze and would be using silicon bronze hardware.

Next topic is the toe rail. It traps considerable water midship and I think it should not. I can’t think of any reason why I should not cut out 1/4 inch sections to allow drainage. I plan on lifting and rebedding it anyhow. Supplements question: Should I install midships chocks and cleats while I am at it, and what size? Bow cleats are 10 inch Al, aft cleats are 8 inch Al. Having little experience, I don’t really know how useful midship cleats will be, but am quite happy to put them in now for the small investment while the boat is in my yard if the consensus is even moderately “yes”.

The boat in an Ontario 32.

Cheers and thank you.

Boulter
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Old 24-05-2013, 11:12   #2
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Re: Misc. deck HW questions

lazarette: Sealing outside lockers is difficult at best. Probably you will have to look at the situation and just come up with your best scheme. There are latches that "swing and rotate" pulling down the cover. I'll see if I can get a picture.
Anchor latch: maybe it's not adjusted correctly? You could always add a secure hasp or other device to only use offshore if that is your concern.
There is usually an bulkhead forward under the v berth that you can mount a stainless D ring to for the anchor rode. In theory, this should never see any strain if you do your job right. But even a 1/2" bulkhead wont be pulled out of the boat through the hawse pipe!
Winches: I would have thought the bases were bronze, but maybe not. Either way, SS fasteners are a good combination with bronze and vice versa. Most turnbuckles are a mixture of the two.
The toe rail trapping water is a typical problem for sure. I dont know your boat... I would be hard pressed to try to remove an aluminum toe rail. I would not mess with it probably. but if you do remove it, I suppose leaving a gap would be fine. Definitely add a midship cleak. I'd go 10" as long as you're doing it.
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Old 27-05-2013, 11:40   #3
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Re: Misc. deck HW questions

Hi Cheechako:

Thank you for the tips.

I think we have settled the winch mounting screws and lazarette HW. I have spotted those latches in a few places, just wondered if anything else out there.

The midship cleat issue looks more than trivial, and is probably something I should just wait on until I get some experience and find myself actually hanging out with other sailors and their boats instead of where I am 2 hours from any substantial water. Some people mount cleats to genoa tracts (which I lack, but who knows might want some day), some people suggest empirically finding the center of lateral resistance and mounting the cleats on this line such that the boat does not rotate when the cleat is used, some people worry about stubbing toes ...

You know, I might just leave the toe rail alone too for now. It is sufficiently low tech that it can be done afloat without much issue if I find the boat is leaky.

As far as the anchor mount point, I went and had another look and I can likely reinforce the anchor locker reasonably well. I think the goal here is 500 pounds pull of having the "help" toss the anchor out before the inboard end is fastened, not having a mount point rated at half the vessel displacement.

Just trying to get as much done as possible while I have the best ever facilities available to me with the boat here at home in the yard. That is of course in battle with not necessarily knowing what I should do, due to no experience.

Thanks again,

Boulter
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Old 27-05-2013, 12:07   #4
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Re: Misc. deck HW questions

You really should install midship cleats asap. Not hard, forget about center-of-lateral resistance complications. Just put them at the widest part of the boat, or at least somewhere where you get good fairleads away from stanchions. DOCKING 101 -- Mid Ship Cleat and Aft Spring

For hatch sealing, you can go for rubber gaskets or plain weatherstripping from Home Depot, depending on the construction of your hatches.
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Old 27-05-2013, 12:15   #5
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Re: Misc. deck HW questions

If you have standard aluminum toe rail, there used to be cleats made that fit on the toe rail....I think they actually fixed into the shape of the punched out holes... not the best situation, but would do for a while. Yeah, sometimes access to get a good backing that is not in the deck core can be hard to install stuff like mid ships cleats. You can drill holes and fill with epoxy and with a good backing plate just leave the core if that is an issue.... it takes alot to compress a good core/double sandwich section.
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Old 27-05-2013, 22:39   #6
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Re: Misc. deck HW questions

Hi Stu and Cheechako:

I am potting the core with epoxy around all the screws for all the deck fittings, so doing another two cleats won't be noticed.

After following some of the links provided by Stu, I am sold on the merits of midship cleats. A am however befuddled as to how to mount with respect to chafing the line on the toe rail. Cut out a section of toe rail and place the cleat as far outboard as possible in the opening? Or put a chock in the opening and have the cleat inboard 6 inches from the chock? Raise the cleat on a wooden spacer to get it above the toe rail? Look for a cleat that is "tall"? Or maybe it is only used initially to get the docking process under control, and not left for weeks at a time, so chafe is not relevant.

I see Defender has a toe rail folding cleat (not cheap), but I don't see much strength in this compared to a 4 hole cleat with a backing plate. I have to think that clumsy docking, while not a force 3 storm situation, does merit some level of robustness.

If chocks are part of my solution, then I need to figure out port/stbd chocks vs straight vs skene. Actually, I need to understand this anyhow as my current chocks are port/stbd and I didn't note which came off from which side.

Boulter
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Old 28-05-2013, 00:10   #7
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Re: Misc. deck HW questions

For 5/8" line or larger, 10" cleat works better. Definitely better to go with 10" or even 12" for the foredeck cleats just in case you need a tow and the line is larger than 3/4". Have 8" Herreshoff style cleats on the stern because of room issues. They are not large enough to cleat 3/4" properly.

For the spring line cleats, would probably buy some Starboard and use it to raise the height of the cleat.
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Old 28-05-2013, 19:15   #8
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Re: Misc. deck HW questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boulter View Post
Hi Stu and Cheechako:

I am potting the core with epoxy around all the screws for all the deck fittings, so doing another two cleats won't be noticed.

After following some of the links provided by Stu, I am sold on the merits of midship cleats. A am however befuddled as to how to mount with respect to chafing the line on the toe rail. Cut out a section of toe rail and place the cleat as far outboard as possible in the opening? Or put a chock in the opening and have the cleat inboard 6 inches from the chock? Raise the cleat on a wooden spacer to get it above the toe rail? Look for a cleat that is "tall"? Or maybe it is only used initially to get the docking process under control, and not left for weeks at a time, so chafe is not relevant.

I see Defender has a toe rail folding cleat (not cheap), but I don't see much strength in this compared to a 4 hole cleat with a backing plate. I have to think that clumsy docking, while not a force 3 storm situation, does merit some level of robustness.

If chocks are part of my solution, then I need to figure out port/stbd chocks vs straight vs skene. Actually, I need to understand this anyhow as my current chocks are port/stbd and I didn't note which came off from which side.

Boulter
If you have continuous aluminum toe rail, personally I wouldnt cut it. I would just put some chafing protection on the spring lines if leaving the boat for a while. Personally I like Bronze or SS Herreschoff cleats, easy to use, easy to get multiple lines on etc. If an actual Fiberglass bulwark, then bronze hawse pipes, or chocks would be nice. I dont know what you have, or how tall it is......
That alum toerail is quite stiff and if you cut a midships chunk out you are creating a "soft spot" in your boat structure. Then you are drilling holes to install a cleat in the same spot. No... I'm not saying your boat will sink, but you could see some deck cracks develop over time... I could bannana/bend my heavy 44 ft boat about 3" with a hydraulic backstay adjuster! Boats do bend!
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