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Old 21-02-2016, 08:33   #1
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Milking on a line a line

Hi all
I was running a reacher on my cat in 12-15knot winds and my halyard
line stretched the outer shell from the inter core .
This happened at a mast clutch. I am now replacing the halyard but think that I will have to secure the halyard possible on the mast winch to get an even pull on the line .
Anyone have a simular experience ?
Thanks for any input
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Old 21-02-2016, 08:53   #2
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Re: Milking on a line a line

conventional clutches eat line, and are best replaced if possible, although you might can rebuild yours. I'm quite pleased with the 'constrictor' style clutches. There are also newer-style clutches which have teeth/grips designed more like a camera shutter than a series of teeth pressing down from one side.

You might can mitigate your issues by using the largest diameter line specified for your clutch. That is to say, conventional clutches do spec a range of sizes, best to use the largest in the range. Of course, then you add weight and windage...

All this said, if you are using a Dyneema-cored line (like Warpspeed) then you might seriously consider a 'constrictor' clutch, HMPE lines are slick and the Constrictor is the solution.
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Old 21-02-2016, 16:09   #3
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Re: Milking on a line a line

Just talking to my brother. He had a constrictor clutch chafe through internally the other day. this was in a very high load application, but interesting info. So constrictors might reduce line wear, but instead they can wear out as well...

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Old 21-02-2016, 16:19   #4
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Re: Milking on a line a line

that's interesting.

I'd like to know...
--what sort of line in the constrictor?
--what sort of loads?
--was the constrictor covered when not in use?
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Old 21-02-2016, 17:49   #5
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Re: Milking on a line a line

A couple of other options:
- Lock Stitch the Core & Cover together, in areas of high load, & or...
- Use RP25 Spinlock RP25 - Rope Treatment and Coating - 250ml | MAURI PRO SAILING or Maxi Jacket/Maxi Jacket HP Search results for: 'maxi jacket' | APS
They'll both help to "glue" (secure) the core & cover together, as well as greatly increasing the line's Chafe & UV resistance.
- Add a length of anti-chafe cover onto the line where it passes through the clutch. Which does several things for you;
~It's application has some lock stitching to it, & thus it's bonding all 3 layers together - BETTER
~It's adding diameter to the line in the clutch area, thus boosting the clutch's holding power.
~It's adding chafe & UV protection to everything.
~The increase in diameter also make it easier for both you (as in your hands), & the winch, to grip the line.

Plus, The Good News: Any, & or ALL of the above can be done to the line!

Also, in addition to adding a dedicated winch for this line, add a standard (horn) cleat below it as well. So that the load is spread out even more. And in a bit more of a failsafe manner.

And if loading on the line is truly a problem, consider switching to a 2:1 halyard.
Although I can't see such being necessary on a boat of that size. Other than perhaps for luff tension on a Code 0.
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Old 22-02-2016, 07:32   #6
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Re: Milking on a line a line

Thanks uncivilized that helps a lot
Great options
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Old 22-02-2016, 11:02   #7
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Re: Milking on a line a line

It is becoming more and more common to use just raw dyneema for halyards and then splice on a high load cover (Flavored Ice for instance) where it hits the clutches and blocks. The spliced on covers tend to hold up better since the buries on either end of the load points help to hold it in place, and there is less distance for the core-cover to work against each other.

Other things to consider....
1) 2:1 on halyards are a good idea, and relatively cheap to implement. It just takes a new much longer halyard and a single high load block at the top of the mast
2) halyard locks are the real answer since they eliminate all compression load, but are still very expensive. Starting around $1,000 last time I looked.
3) constrictor clutches... I have not seen many, but the reports seem to be mixed. Better than the old clutches, pretty expensive, and they don't always release well under load.
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Old 22-02-2016, 17:51   #8
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Re: Milking on a line a line

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
It is becoming more and more common to use just raw dyneema for halyards and then splice on a high load cover (Flavored Ice for instance) where it hits the clutches and blocks. The spliced on covers tend to hold up better since the buries on either end of the load points help to hold it in place, and there is less distance for the core-cover to work against each other.
These still should be lock stitched in place (on both ends, & in some apps, though the middle too), as well as getting a coat or two of RP25 of Maxi Jacket/Plus

Not to be a wise ass, but the use of progressively less, & less cover thing has been going on for several decades.
So that nowadays; there are a lot of boats using bare Vectran & other things (line types), for sheets, etc. Including the bits which get winched on, etc. Ditto on halyards, etc. With cover only being applied to the high wear bits (at most);
- where lines cross sheaves
- through clutches
- though pole jaws, & other (coarser/more abrasive) hardwear crossing points
And some boats have all but deleted line covers from their programs.


-> One KEY catch to this, is that halyards without covers, & without metal shackles, are VERY prone to flying away/going up to the masthead, if you let go of them, even for a second.


Other things to consider....
1) 2:1 on halyards are a good idea, and relatively cheap to implement. It just takes a new much longer halyard and a single high load block at the top of the mast
On this, much of the time, the "block" (or low friction ring, etc.) is attached to a "shackle", which gets connected to the head of the sail. With one end of the 2:1 halyard being secured at the masthead.

Also,IMO, unless you have a Heavy sail to hoist. Read Full Batten, Square Head Main on a 50' Catamaran. This route is a lot of unneeded extra expense, & mucho extra line to deal with. - Especially as unjacketed lines blow around/away in a breeze, literally, nigh on as quickly as yarn does. Until you stuff it into a halyard bag. And you have to mind it a lot closer, when dropping a sail, as it wont lay flaked out either.

2) halyard locks are the real answer since they eliminate all compression load, but are still very expensive. Starting around $1,000 last time I looked.
Be advised, that there can be a LOT more hardware, running rigging, & mandatory sail mods, which are required to go with a large percentage of the halyard locks out there, as yet.

But yes. They ARE an option. Even for tasks like securing reefing lines on a mainsail's clew end. But there's no free lunch.
Generally such items are Much more prevalent on boats running Custom, & or Carbon fiber rigs, & in that crowd/price range.


3) constrictor clutches... I have not seen many, but the reports seem to be mixed. Better than the old clutches, pretty expensive, and they don't always release well under load.
On constrictor clutches (as of last check), they hold Much better, when sized right. And reports (for the last couple of years) from the Class 40 Boats (a one design, ocean racing class) is that they subject lines to less wear than do conventional clutches (again, sans free lunch, or guarantees).

Also, they're far from cheap. And take a lot more TLC/operator input, to get'em to work. You don't just close or open the handle, & forget about things.
It's, um, (semi) complicated (to operate them).



For some more anti-chafe/cover resources; I put together the below info package for another CF member a year or three back. Hopefully it'll be a bit helpful. And not just for preventing chafe on running rigging. But for anchor, dock, & mooring lines as well.

NOTE: At the moment, APSLtd.com is having their Winter Rigging Sale... For a little while longer, so... And this includes their Splicing Services Sailboat Running Rigging Splicing Services | APS
Which Mauri Pro Sailing offers too Mauri Pro Rigging: Splicing Services | MAURI PRO SAILING

You can get many varieties of "cover only", rope jacket material/sleeves designed specifically for chafe protection in HARD working racing line applications. Which are made out of such things as; Spectra, Nomex, Kevlar, other Aramids, & a few other exotics. Albeit, you might need to do some digging/contact their manufacturers in order to find larger sizes than are shown here Sailboat Line and Rope Cover Only | APS
Here Lines & Ropes | MAURI PRO SAILING New England Ropes Dyneema Chafe Sleeves | MAURI PRO SAILING
And of course, here. Shop ā€” Colligo MarineĀ®

Then there are the Heavy Duty & Professional Grade resources:
Arborist type Rigging Equipment sources, such as this one Arborist Supplies + Arborist Tree Climbing Gear: BartlettMan

Fire + Outdoor Rescue suppliers, like CMC Rescue | Rescue Equipment | Rescue School or say Search Results | Yale Cordage and

New England Ropes - TEUFELBERGER Fiber Rope Corporation

(Yeah, I know, funny name if you speak German)

Plus, so as not to be left out, Cafe Protection for High-Performance Ropes

And it never hurts to go straight to the source:

SamsonRope.com Home Page
Custom Cordage & Braided Rope | Yale Cordage
New England Ropes - TEUFELBERGER Fiber Rope Corporation

One other thought might be to perhaps have a sailmaker "sew" (meaning sew & or glue) you up some custom Spectra anti-chafe sleeves, out of the wider widths of Spectra Webbing that's available. And or, that they have on hand/can order. Especially for high wear, non running rigging type lines.

That, plus your doing a bit of calling around to locate some off cuts of the larger diameters of Spectra line (as in 1'-5' pieces) that; specialty, commercial rig shops, & larger vessels use. So that you might run your dock lines, etc. through their hollow cores (after giving both bits a coating of Maxi-Jacket or similar. Particularly on these type of ad hoc Spectra chafe covers. For given the design of their braiding process, they'll be more prone to getting snagged yarns, thus compromising their integrity.
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