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Old 12-10-2016, 18:00   #76
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Re: Max righting moment question

I think you are worrying unnecessarily. She's a stumpy little thing. Surely from tranny flange to stuffing box couldn't be more than a coupla feet. So how wide is your bilge in the region and how deep? Measurements, bitte! Lets assume that the volume of that part of the bilge is 3 cubic feet. Then, the weight of seawater require to fill it up would be just about the same as my weight. The equivalent of a man in the cockpit. That won't change the boats trim or make her unseaworthy. The bilge is there so if water DOES get in it won't soak you good stuff, but stay in the "sump" that the bilge is. From there you pump it overboard.

Your cockpit sole is about 6" above the waterline - just like mine - and you can easily scupper it overboard so it's self-draining. The plans show a hatch, but that's only for getting the engine in and out on the rare, rare occasion that that's required. The rest of the time it's sealed and no water will get in, even if you get pooped - which you won't, if you know how to sail the boat.

As for pumping out, the tiniest little Rule or Jabsco will do all the pumping you'll ever require. The trick is in how you mount it and where you put the float switch that makes the pumping automatic. If you are worried about sinking because you are taking water, then know that NO bilge pump can prevent that. The bilge pump is ONLY for getting rid of the (essential) drip from the stuffing box and coping with the odd spill when skipper get careless with his morning coffee!

Don't waste your time on matters that ole Wally McInnes sorted out for you already.

A MAJOR consideration, however, if you want hot food is what you are going to do for cooking. Solid fuel is dafe but where you gonna stow it? Alcohol is winpy and also rather dangerous. Propane is the way to go if you can manage to find a way to construct a propane locker according to regulations. THAT could be a problem in this boat!

The bilge is just fine the way it is. It's your job as skipper so to sail the boat that the water stays on the outside :-)!

TrentePieds
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Old 12-10-2016, 18:13   #77
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Re: Max righting moment question

It's 13 "widex13" deep at the furthest foreword part that's 2inches below my floorboards and it runs 12 foot. At the stern it's 2' deep and about 10 inches wide, trying to upload a pic..I'm under the cockpit now haha seems I spend more time here just looking thinking and imagineing worst case scenarios..should be watching tv in my huge saloon. I have a alacholol stove the non pressure type and a little magma Cabo on the stern rail.
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Old 12-10-2016, 18:15   #78
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Re: Max righting moment question

I'll try to upload these pics
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Old 12-10-2016, 18:17   #79
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Re: Max righting moment question

Hummm choose photo;take picture;use picture;post but nothing uploaded. Sorry for the multiple replys
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Old 12-10-2016, 18:35   #80
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Re: Max righting moment question

For the photos, easiest to put them on desktop, go down to "manage attachments" click that and it will give you a window with 5 or 6 buttons for "browse." click one and find you photo on the desktop list. choose it and then hit "upload." Wait a minute till it shows up under "manage attachments" and then it should be good to go. But we can always see them in your album too.
I too am curious about your bilge and bilge pump problem. I suspect it is ok too like Trente. The little drips from the shaft are normal and come with the territory.

Oh BTW, Stephens was talking about the water that may come in once you are heeled over at 90 degrees or so! Not common or likely! However, if water in the cockpit is a concern, just be sure the companionway step is above the level of the cockpit coaming so that if the cockpit is flooded, it won't pour into the salon.
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Old 12-10-2016, 18:48   #81
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Re: Max righting moment question

ok lets see here's some showing the mast rake also
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Old 12-10-2016, 18:54   #82
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Re: Max righting moment question

Success!

Now not sure if you have seen these but you ought to look at the Allegra 24 here and all the other "similar boats" listed in the article. I think you'll find your boat's design is in good company with proven pocket cruisers!
The Allegra 24 Sailboat : Bluewaterboats.org

BTW, the more you show of your boat, the better she looks! Bilge looks good! I see the PO pretty much eliminated the sprit option without getting a new pulpit and anchor roller.
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Old 12-10-2016, 19:09   #83
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Re: Max righting moment question

I have and yes that's what brought me here. I've been an armchair sailor for years ,since reading slocum and other classics I wanted a flicka Dana allegra alberg triton or something proven along them lines. I saw this boat and thought it fit the mold but can't find any thing about them. other then a boat named chappy who sailed from ma to South America, and there's a eh24 on yacht world that a man has chopped off the coach roof and replaced it with a Dana a,one other things, from the sound of it he sailed it up from Venezuela. Eh24s are pretty cheap compared to other pocket cruisers, just was trying to see where she stood in the realm of the proven ones. Since I've bought the boat I've been consumed with it I live on it rather then my house haha and I'm thinking of a 4 yr refit...Cape Horn windvane,solar,wind,cold plate,and power man survivor, then selling the farm are falling off. I know I really should consider a bigger boat with the amount of money those items will cost ,but I feel like I'm half way there now that I have this so..only time will tell.
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Old 12-10-2016, 19:34   #84
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Re: Max righting moment question

These little boats are all much of a muchness, and all of them have a SLIGHT amount of rake. Nothing to do with handling under sail or efficiency of sails. It just has to do with this slight amount of rake confering a slight amount of triangulation to the shroud/mst couple so as to stiffen the mast. All else follows.

All these little boats are capable of ocean crossings. That is never in question. What is OFTEN in question is whether their owner/skippers are capable :-)

I don't mean to be snarky, but it seems to me you keep dodging the math ;-0)! You gotta be able to work simple volume calculations: A tank (or a bilge) two foot long 15 inches across the flat top and coming to an edge at the bottom 15 inches below the flat top hass a volume of 2 * 1 1/4 * 1 1/4 /2 = just over 1 1/2 cubic feet. So if you fill it with seawater, how much will it weigh? It'll weigh 1.5 * 64 lbs or about a hundred lbs. If you habitually do those kindsa calculations in your head, you'll stop worrying about your bilge :-)

You gotta do numbers like that if you're gonna navigate. You can't go anywhere safely unless you can navigate. So don't worry about the bilge. Just get on with the basics - starting with the math.

As for alcohol - and non-pressurized at that: You'll soon get tired of that. One of the reasons alcohol is dangerous is that in sunlight you can't see the flame. You WILL burn yourself sooner or later. Alcohol floats on water. Can't put out an alcohol fire with water. Water only spreads the fire. Try and fill the reservoir when it poops out on you in the middle of cooking a meal. Fumes from the pouring WILL explode if you are smoking or if you haven't made dead sure that the cooking flame (which is invisible in the sunlight) has been put out.

Worry about the stuff that's important to you. Don't second-guess Wally McInnes :-)

TrentePieds
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Old 12-10-2016, 19:58   #85
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Re: Max righting moment question

I don't doubt the math. it's 15 inches deep 15 inches wide at the squared off bottom and tapers out at the top, not 15 taperd down into a vee , that's constant for about 12 foot run, then starts to taper into the stern for the last 3 foot it ends up two feet deep and ending about 10 inches wide at the bottom ( bigger to the top).. haha yes my math is bad,google has killed my brain. But well say 1.25x1.25x12 is 18.75 cubic foot and that's going light..not including the last 3 foot where it gets deeper. At 64 lbs a cubic foot that's 1200 lbs? With room to spare.
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Old 12-10-2016, 20:16   #86
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Re: Max righting moment question

Wow that's scary had to double check that sorry the bilge is 11 ' long so 1.25x1.25x8 so 800 lb not including the last 3 ft so about a thousand lb of water. If it were to totally fill. Is that sounding out of the norm? My thoughts were that since it's so wide and long it takes quite a bit of water to fill it even say 2 inches ( or what ever the bilge will turn on at) I put a solid state switch on the bilge and I cut the bottom off making it about an inch lower to the bottom water would have to fill 2 inches to activate it. During four day sails I haven't accumulated that much water to set it off. But the inch or so of water in the bilge bothers me. Then I get out the shop vac and suck it out. In Pouring rain and wave spray water doesn't make its way into the bilge. My cowls are venerable as is my engine acess (if I were pooped).
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Old 12-10-2016, 21:53   #87
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Re: Max righting moment question

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post

!) Fit a sprit! The original sprit was quite short and a replacement for the missing one is quite easily made from wood, same as the original was. The trick will be in the fastening of it to the deck, but I'd be very surprised if a little poking about would not reveal where the original attachments were. The holes in the deck may well still be there, just bunged and covered over. On the cutwater you may still find vestiges of the bobstay attachment.

2) Scupper the roller furling jib. It is NOT original, and was not part of McInnes' intentions. Roller furling jibs had NOT been invented when EH24 was designed! When you've fitted a sprit, a new headstay is a piecacake for a rigger to make up for you. You could even do it yourself, as we often did in those days. The bits'n'pieces you'll need are readily available.

Having done those two things you'll have a REAL EH24 in all her diminutive beauty.

It is a certainty that the roller-furling jib is a retrofit - and a bad one at that. Because this little ship was designed as a motorsailer, her SAILING abilities, particularly in light weather, are, shall we say, slight. That was deliberate on McInnes' part.

TrentePieds
Roller furling has been around a lot longer than the eastward design - about 75 years longer.

Furling gear WYKEHAM MARTIN by DAVEY & Company, London, Ltd. at Toplicht

https://rwrope.com/classic-boat-supp...-furling-gear/

Originally designed so you didn't have to negotiate a narrow bowsprit.

I would keep the roller furling and add a bowsprit. The roller furling on its outboard end will help in light airs.
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Old 13-10-2016, 08:59   #88
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Re: Max righting moment question

Quote: "In Pouring rain and wave spray water doesn't make its way into the bilge..."

Well, of course. Why would it :-)? An inch or two of water in the cockpit is of no consequence as long as your scuppers are clear. How high is your bridge deck - the bit above the engine and under the drop slides? How would sea water get below?

This boat is gonna stay on her feet regardless of how hard a novice sailor presses her. I have my doubts that even an experienced sailor striving for it could get her rail under in any kind of wether that you'd be out in for q, you press 'er
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Old 13-10-2016, 09:16   #89
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Re: Max righting moment question

Oops! to continue: ...any kind of weather you'd be out in for quite some time to come. So why are you worried?

Standard setup of the bilge pump is to wire it via a float switch so it will start when there is enuff water to activate it. An electrical "by-pass" containing a manual switch is provided so you can start the pump even when there isn't enuff water to activate the float switch.

The suction for the pump can be taken to a "well" that is a little deeper than the rest of the bilge or if the bilge slopes stem to stern as yours likely does, then to the down-most part of the bilge. No need for a shop vac

What you SHOULD take a butcher's at, is whether there is a containment dam under your engine so the inevitable slops of oil from changing the oil filter won't contaminate the entire bilge. Easy enuff to build a dam if you haven't one.

It's always a good idea to have a tube running fore'n'aft through the bottom of the dam so bilge water can run from one end of the dam to the other while whatever might be IN the dam stays where it is. Such a tube is called "a limber" and it's a good idea to leave a light chain in it, so that if the limber bungs up with old Kleenexes and stray apple peels and cat's fur balls, you can clear the limber by pulling the chain back and forth.

It's those kind of details you need to think about. Stop worrying about your bilge filling up completely. It just isn't gonna happen unless YOU do something that causes it :-)

TrentePieds
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Old 13-10-2016, 10:15   #90
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Re: Max righting moment question

Ok sounds reassuring thank you. I'll be focusing on the rigging for now, I have the existing bronze turnbuckles, they still look good with a magnifying glass. I was gonna bump my wire sizes up ,but After the opinions I've read here I'll save a bunch of money keeping the turnbuckles and replacing the wire with the same sizes. Gonna fabricate some bronze chainplates (add gussets,beef up the sides of the hull and deck and move the chainplates to the hull sides, or through the deck to the gusset plates,havent decided yet) they're currently through bolted to the deck right at the toe rail it's only about an inch further out. But there's no bulk head there so I'm still debating on their locations. I'm think swagged fittings for the tangs, mechanical at the bottom. Which brings me back to the fore and back stay. Is a backstay tensioner somthing you would recommend for my basic rig? And if I add the sprit with the roller out on the end should I add an inner forestay and running back stay? Sorry for all the questions just say uncle and I'll stop.
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