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Old 06-01-2016, 02:52   #1
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Mast trouble

Oh the joys of boat ownership ! Just come out of the boat yard and decided to clean my bilge.. Wife said she thought the genny was a bit slack... After the clean up we luckily found our collapsing compression pillar before it went through the hull LOL. Now an in the water repair will be interesting
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Old 06-01-2016, 02:55   #2
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Re: Mast trouble

Youch!

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Old 06-01-2016, 04:10   #3
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Re: Mast trouble

Sorry to see (part of) your troubles. But why will this fix be any harder in the water than out?
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Old 06-01-2016, 05:34   #4
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Re: Mast trouble

YIKES!

Should be a straight forward repair after you get that annoying pole outta the way....

There's a recent thread somewhere here about lifting the stick and securing it just high enough to effect a mast step repair...
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Old 06-01-2016, 09:39   #5
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Re: Mast trouble

Quite honestly, to fix that one, I'd likely be calling upon the services of an NA. Especially in terms of getting a proper diagnosis, & repair; details, specs, & instructions.

As from what I can see, it really doesn't appear that a proper step was ever built. That, & that there doesn't appear to be much resembling keel frames or a substantial. longitudinal keel/structual stringers.

Also, much of the crushed structure appears to be; hollow/hollowed out underneath, cored, or both. So, given that the loads on the butt of a spar are often several times the weight of the vessel (under some conditions), a Fully qualified professional, to diagnose things, & specifiy the proper repairs, is likely a good idea.

Though more pics, along with descriptive info of what we're seeing would help. Such as what each section we can see is, plus, what each is made of, how thick, etc.

But the fix may entail a full rebuild of some significant structural bits, or, maybe not. Ergo, the NA comment.
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Old 06-01-2016, 11:39   #6
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Re: Mast trouble

Well it would be easier out ie. Boatyard as we could take the mast of.
The structure is quite complex as it distributes the weight and force over a 2m2 area. Yes it has hollows for drainage if you need too ! Here's some more pics.
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Old 06-01-2016, 11:46   #7
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Re: Mast trouble

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
Quite honestly, to fix that one, I'd likely be calling upon the services of an NA. Especially in terms of getting a proper diagnosis, & repair; details, specs, & instructions.

As from what I can see, it really doesn't appear that a proper step was ever built. That, & that there doesn't appear to be much resembling keel frames or a substantial. longitudinal keel/structual stringers.

Also, much of the crushed structure appears to be; hollow/hollowed out underneath, cored, or both. So, given that the loads on the butt of a spar are often several times the weight of the vessel (under some conditions), a Fully qualified professional, to diagnose things, & specifiy the proper repairs, is likely a good idea.

Though more pics, along with descriptive info of what we're seeing would help. Such as what each section we can see is, plus, what each is made of, how thick, etc.

But the fix may entail a full rebuild of some significant structural bits, or, maybe not. Ergo, the NA comment.
Not sure what an NA is guessing nautical something.
Its all about 3/4 inch thick glass and has verticals both lat and long. that you can't see.
Done a few repairs on her I tend to overdoo my repairs as Tsunami damage on the bow was reglassed with 136 layers of epoxy. I will probably do the same here. All probably my own fault as i like tight rigging.
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Old 06-01-2016, 12:08   #8
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Re: Mast trouble

NA is either Not Applicable, or maybe Naval Architect?
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Old 06-01-2016, 12:29   #9
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Re: Mast trouble

Emmalina,

UNCIVILIZED did mean naval architect.

Looks to me like an opportunity to have the mast out and go over it carefully, too. I take it that's your main mast; but you would be wise to check the mizzen, as well.

I surely don't like the look of the crushed and cracked area. You're going to want to see what is going on there, and it is possible that you'll want to do it on the hard. We had some friend who did a major refit at a yard in Thailand, and found that if you work alongside with the Thai men, they work hard and well. I do not know of a naval architect there, but we have met one here (in Australia), if you want to pursue having one come and look at it for you. PM me for details if you think you might want one and cannot find someone locally.

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Old 06-01-2016, 13:06   #10
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Re: Mast trouble

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Emmalina,

UNCIVILIZED did mean naval architect.

Looks to me like an opportunity to have the mast out and go over it carefully, too. I take it that's your main mast; but you would be wise to check the mizzen, as well.

I surely don't like the look of the crushed and cracked area. You're going to want to see what is going on there, and it is possible that you'll want to do it on the hard. We had some friend who did a major refit at a yard in Thailand, and found that if you work alongside with the Thai men, they work hard and well. I do not know of a naval architect there, but we have met one here (in Australia), if you want to pursue having one come and look at it for you. PM me for details if you think you might want one and cannot find someone locally.

Ann
Well Ann thanks for the info. I have been around here for a fey years and am pretty knowledgable about the yards around here. Think you missed the first post where we just got back in the water!
Anyway have decided to use this guys system although on a bigger scale and check into a mariner that has calm water. Will let you know how I get on.
In-Situ Mast Step Replacement
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Old 06-01-2016, 14:18   #11
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Re: Mast trouble

Yes, my apoligies for the acronym thing. I did mean Naval Architect, when I typed NA.

Ah, & yeah, it'd be FAR easier to do the job with the mast out. Especially if/when you have to disassemble a lot of what supports the cabin sole, & possibly interior furniture, in order to get at the bits which are in need of repairing/replacing.

I'd suggested calling in an NA, as from what I could see, it appears that you'll likely both need to repair the damaged areas, as well as improving on the original design.
Meaning, to cut out the old, dead structual bits & replace them. Plus adding some new, beefier supports along with the original design. That, or have an NA or good shipwright, come up with a new design altogether, for things.

Because, due to the crushing, & what I can see of the structure in the neighborhood of the mast's butt, it loolks like there's nothing solid underneath of the web which was previously holding up the spar. Or that if there was, it's at best, turned into bits of "Swiss Cheese", & dust.
IE: It appears that there's not much of structural consequence in between the butt of the mast, that structural bridgework, & the keel.

Where in my mind, you'd likely be best served by a fixed blocking of some sort, from the keel to the mast's heel, & spanning the beam of the boat, out to at least the turn of the bilges. In orne form or another. Be such structures; metal, wood, composite, or some combination of those.

And while in the link you provided, they talk about pouring in structural epoxy, as a fix. I gather that your boat's a bit different in terms of how things down there are designed. So that even with proper, & creative damming, it'd not be plausible to effect a repair on your boat that way. Or at least not based on what I can see.

Which, even with the best of pics, diagnosing such a thing, sans pages of documents, & seeing much more of the structure of the boat, I'd only be guessing at fixes.
Not that I'm saying that I'm throwing in the towel, if more info & images get added. Though I'd love to grab my passport, & a crate or three of my favorite tools, & come on over

BTW, what kind of material is it that's holding the spar's butt up at the moment? Diitto on what the boat's made of, etc. And how all of the primary structures are tied together?


PS: I'd be REAL cautious about lifting up a spar as they did in the link:
That's a Lot of load to be putting onto a small section of the deck. And you may need to build some temporary internal framing to handle such a load, without damaging your coach hours, structurally.
Plus, it'd be easy to goof, & dimple/crush the mast tube, via attemptig to lift it in a fashion which uses a collar exerting compression on it's walls in order to support it's weight. And you're going to need to lift yours up much further vertically than the did to. Likely on the order of 6" minimum, & more would be better.
Especially if you wind up needing to replace that whole web type suportive framework. Then, in that case, the more access you have, the easier the job will be.

And my apoligies if I'm telling you a lot of things which you already know. I'm just kind of thinking through the problem aloud, via the keyboard.
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Old 11-01-2016, 17:48   #12
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Re: Mast trouble

Well out NA ked out that they built the step with cored fiber and it has over the years got very soggy and rotten but we are working away. Mast up and most of the rott chopped out !
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Old 15-01-2016, 04:44   #13
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Re: Mast trouble

Congrats on the progress... You are well on your way !
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Old 22-01-2016, 15:40   #14
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Re: Mast trouble

Bit of closure ! Mast back down all done and infinately stronger than before 35kg or resin and the same of woven roving !!!
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Old 22-01-2016, 16:15   #15
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Re: Mast trouble

I love good boatyard engineering. Congrats

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