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Old 06-09-2014, 10:10   #16
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Re: Mast steps

Terra Nova,what do you mean by,"windage increases dramatically" ?

I suspect topside mechanical fastening proves most reliable.Perhaps I would use an adhesive also.An adhesive that would reliquish adherance with heat applied.
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Old 06-09-2014, 10:45   #17
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Re: Mast steps

With the mast steps, TN heels over very noticeably more from wind force, with no sails up. As in a near knock-down in the slip! Slight exaggeration.
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Old 06-09-2014, 11:06   #18
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Re: Mast steps

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Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
With the mast steps, TN heels over very noticeably more from wind force, with no sails up. As in a near knock-down in the slip! Slight exaggeration.
Is that with them in the folded or down position?
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Old 06-09-2014, 11:23   #19
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Re: Mast steps

The windage aloft that Terra Nova has spoken of is the very reason why I did not place the steps on my current boat like my former one. It's not a question of performance for me as my boat is more of a "mother tub" design, but I'm am trying to hold my place anchored in a tropical storm now and then. My best ability to keep safe means that I keep windage way down. My roller furling comes down. I stow my booms below with the main and mizzen still on them. Any windage up high has a far greater detrimental effect. I assume the folded steps help, but twenty or so folded steps sticking out an inch or so add up significantly in big winds.
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Old 06-09-2014, 11:41   #20
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Re: Mast steps

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Originally Posted by chris95040 View Post
What reasons do folks have for steps that just go up to the spreaders? Just curious. Other than the steaming light (or the spreaders themselves, though I'd hate to go aloft if there were a problem there) I'd think the masthead is where problems would be.
Chris95040, I made the spreader comment, as it's a common & semi-comfortable place to stand or sit & while watching for coral. I'd venture to say that few folks go up to the top of the mast to do that.

Hudson Force, click on the link in my other post in this thread if you want to read up some more on ways to go aloft which require less muscle power. Be the muscle power; yours, someone else's, or electro-mechanical. As well as giving a nod or three towards going aloft safely. [Page 4, about 3/4 of the way down the page.]
In it, one of the key critical components which I mention is using a climbing harness, NOT a bosun's chair or plank. As when properly fastened, the belt part of a climbing harness is secured above your hip bones, so that you can't fall out of it even if you somehow get turned upside down.
Witness the scene in the movie "Wind". There's an interesting back story behind that scene .

Terra Nova, I'm curious as to why you specify Tef-Gel, other than that Brion Toss is a big proponent of it in general (he's a personal friend). I'll have to ask him about his thoughts on what to use to coat the threads on mast step fasteners.
After, that is, he recovers from this weekend (the Port Townsend Wooden Boat Festival, & the other Wooden Boat Fest's in his general area right now).
I specifically mentioned using Loctite, because it BOTH acts as a galvanic isolator to some degree (and it is designed to be such), as well as securing these critical fasteners in place. Call me a simpleton, but I'd prefer to have them semi-glue into the mast, as opposed to having so critical a connection, greased.
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Old 06-09-2014, 11:49   #21
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Re: Mast steps

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Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
............. Hudson Force, click on the link in my other post in this thread if you want to read up some more on ways to go aloft which require less muscle power. Be the muscle power; yours, someone else's, or electro-mechanical. As well as giving a nod or three towards going aloft safely.
In it, one of the key critical components which I mention is using a climbing harness, NOT a bosun's chair or plank. As when properly fastened, the belt part of a climbing harness is secured above your hip bones, so that you can't fall out of it even if you somehow get turned upside down.
Witness the scene in the movie "Wind". There's an interesting back story behind that scene . .......................
It's always a reassuring compliment to be advise to follow a practice that is already your own habit. I've been using the climbing harness instead of a bosun's chair for years. Thanks!
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Old 06-09-2014, 12:14   #22
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Re: Mast steps

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Originally Posted by chris95040 View Post
What reasons do folks have for steps that just go up to the spreaders? Just curious. Other than the steaming light (or the spreaders themselves, though I'd hate to go aloft if there were a problem there) I'd think the masthead is where problems would be.

To get high enough to hopefully see the coral heads before you hit them, sort of like a crows nest
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Old 06-09-2014, 12:29   #23
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Re: Mast steps

TefGel is simply the best product I know of for stainless fasteners into aluminum. Decades ago, before TefGel, we used Alumalastic.

TN's mast steps do not fold.

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Old 06-09-2014, 12:45   #24
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Re: Mast steps

Do you consider Tef-Gel significantly better than Never-Seize? And if so, why? As if memory serves, Molybdenum is one of the key ingredients in both Never-Seize as well as automobile wheel bearing grease. A substance which gets a REAL workout in terms of "keeping things unstuck".
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Old 06-09-2014, 12:59   #25
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Re: Mast steps

It has Teflon.

A list of others who stand by this product:

Alden Yachts
Allied Hatteras
American Custom Yachts
Atkins and Hoyle
Beard Marine
Birdsall Marine
Bomar
Bradford Marine
Burger Boat Company
Cook Manufacturing
Carver Boat Corp.
Catalina Yachts
Correct Craft
Christensen Shipyard
Ellsworth Adhesive
Endeavor Yachts
Florida Marine Tech.
Freeman Marine
Garhauer Marine
Garlington Landeweer
Harken
Hatteras Yachts
Hinckley Boat Compnay
Hines Farley
Hood Yachts
Jay and Kay Manufacturing
Marine Exhaust Systems
KCS International
Latham Marine
Lazzara Yacht Corp.
Lewis Marine Supply
Marquipt
Myco Trailer
National Marine Supply
Nautical Structures
Nordland Boats
Norseman Marine
Offshore Spar
OshKosh Truck
Palmer Johnson
Parker Merrick
Pipe Welders
Post Marine
Quick Lift
River Marine
River Supply
Romar Marine
Rybovich Spencer
San Diego Marine
Sea Chest Marine
Sea Ray Boats
Sea Recovery Corp.
Shuster
Southwest Wind Power
Spurs Marine
Sub Sea Systems
TNT Custom Rigging
TNT Marine
Tobul Accumulator
Townshend Trade
TPI
US Navy
Wards
Wayfarer Marine Corp.
Zodiac Hurricane
Shutter Services
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Old 06-09-2014, 14:56   #26
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Re: Mast steps

Tef-Gel is undoubtedly a good product. It will keep s/s fasteners from becoming corroded into place in masts. As far as I know, that is all that it does. It is also kinda expensive.

For many years, long before the introduction of Tef-Gel, we used other products, things like lanolin, Dura-Lac and various anti-seize compounds. They also kept s/s fasteners from becoming corroded in masts. They are very inexpensive.

So far I have not been convinced that Tef-Gel offers any better results than the older products. Perhaps someone can explain why it is so much better.

All those folks on TN's list pass on the extra costs to their customers. I can't do that!

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Old 07-09-2014, 20:10   #27
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Post Re: Mast steps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Garfield View Post
Terra Nova,what do you mean by,"windage increases dramatically" ?

I suspect topside mechanical fastening proves most reliable.Perhaps I would use an adhesive also.An adhesive that would reliquish adherance with heat applied.
If you are going to try the bolting/bonding combo, choose your adhesive carefully. As you want it to have a high enough heat deflection temperature which is well above anything that it'd see in service. This is the temp at which epoxies start to soften. And with non post-cured boat building ones, it's actually shockingly low.
The other side of this coin is that you wouldn't want to use an adhesive which necessitates getting things so hot for it to release, that you start creating problems with the heat treatment of, & the structural properties of the metal, at the molecular level.
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Old 07-09-2014, 20:25   #28
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Re: Mast steps

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Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED;1622291
[COLOR=#000080
Terra Nova, I'm curious as to why you specify Tef-Gel, other than that Brion Toss is a big proponent of it in general (he's a personal friend). I'll have to ask him about his thoughts on what to use to coat the threads on mast step fasteners. [/COLOR]
After, that is, he recovers from this weekend (the Port Townsend Wooden Boat Festival, & the other Wooden Boat Fest's in his general area right now).
I specifically mentioned using Loctite, because it BOTH acts as a galvanic isolator to some degree (and it is designed to be such), as well as securing these critical fasteners in place. Call me a simpleton, but I'd prefer to have them semi-glue into the mast, as opposed to having so critical a connection, greased.

Brian likes a product called ECK. He pitched it hard during his talk at th e show.
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Old 09-09-2014, 09:06   #29
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Re: Mast steps

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Brian likes a product called ECK. He pitched it hard during his talk at th e show.
Well, I am distinctly overdue to stop by his shop with a bottle of rum
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Old 11-09-2014, 18:45   #30
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Re: Mast steps

I have alum. mast steps with alum rivets - seem to hold ok, but i always use 2 short safety ropes as I go up/down. A word of warning on ss rivets - i used some a few years ago to refix a sail track on my mizzen - they corroded within a year, replaced with monel, so far so good (2 ish+ years on)
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