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Old 05-08-2014, 12:01   #1
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Marlow-Hunter Rigging.

My neighbor purchased a new Marlow-Hunter 50 CC, nice boat and sails fairly well. He is going to coastal cruise and winter in Baja. I am wondering about the rigging and if it as good as he claims. Here is a video about it.

B&R Rig Design – Hunter Sailboat B&R Rig | Marlow-Hunter, LLC

Opinions please.
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Old 05-08-2014, 14:54   #2
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Re: Marlow-Hunter rigging.

B&R rigged boats have been around a long time. I have one and like it better than my last boat's "standard" rig.

Why do you want to "discuss" it as those that don't have much experience tend to just trash it, while those of us with it like it just fine? You don't have it so what does it matter?
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Old 08-08-2014, 14:32   #3
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Re: Marlow-Hunter rigging.

I wanted to learn about them since the only info I have found is by Hunter. I am wondering why this upsets you.
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Old 08-08-2014, 15:01   #4
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Re: Marlow-Hunter rigging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boating2go View Post
I wanted to learn about them since the only info I have found is by Hunter. I am wondering why this upsets you.
Sailorboy1 is very sensitive about anything Hunter, as he owns one.

You asked a legitimate question, it deserves a legitimate answer. I've never sailed one, so I can't comment. My suspicion is that a BR rig is perfectly good for coastal situations, but I would not feel the same about blue water applications.

But then that is just my suspicion, and not based on any substantive knowledge.

Perhaps most telling is that the system has not been adapted by any other sailboat manufacturers. I do like the idea of having the chain plate on the outside of the hull, but notice there is only one on each side, and you still have inner chain plates for your spreaders.
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Old 09-08-2014, 05:21   #5
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Marlow-Hunter rigging.

The key part of your reply was that you haven't sailed one!!!!!! And the rest was just a wag not founded on facts.


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Old 09-08-2014, 05:29   #6
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Re: Marlow-Hunter rigging.

BTW - it isn't Marlow-Hunter rigging it is Selden rigging


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Old 09-08-2014, 06:27   #7
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Re: Marlow-Hunter rigging.

I have sailed a Hunter with the B&R rig and of course several boats with the standard rig. Like everything on a boat there are pros and cons and also like everything on a boat it needs to be managed correctly.

Pros
- simpler rig
- no stay and chainplates on the stern so easier to board, rig arches and davits, etc
- I have not heard of a plague of Hunter masts falling down so one must assume the rig is as strong as a standard rig.
- probably some more that others may contribute.

Cons
- will have to modify your sail handling techniques.
- off the wind you cannot ease the main as far as you can with a normal rig since it will chafe on the upper shrouds so tricky to sail dead downwind.
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Old 09-08-2014, 06:53   #8
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I think a disadvantage is lack of backstay means you can't tension the headstay to improve pointing in breeze. The lack of backstay is an advantage really only because you can have a roachy full battened main for better speed. Of course, I believe the majority of Hunter owners specify in mast furling so IMHO there really is no reason for the rig if you will have a hollow leeched furling mainsail.

I am sure the rig is plenty strong for what 99% of the boats do. I also am sure the loads on the rigging are greater due to lack of backstay (simple geometry) but as long as everything is sized up to compensate, which sort of negates the cost of backstay and extra chainplate, all should be fine.

I also am sure if it was much better than conventional rigs, more boatbuilders would specify them.
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Old 09-08-2014, 07:38   #9
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Re: Marlow-Hunter rigging.

I had a B&R rig on an old MORC race boat maybe 20 years ago (Holmes 27). The boat was bought hull and deck and then sent to B&R for fitting out. I thought the rig was way ahead of its time and had no issue with it. It did have a backstay and was a little more traditional than the Hunter B&Rs. I wish I could find photos of it.
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Old 09-08-2014, 08:05   #10
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Re: Marlow-Hunter Rigging.

I've often been surrounded by friends with Hunters. I've sailed some with the B&R rig and even one of the Visions with the huge diameter free-standing mast. I thought well of the B&R rig and found not fault in it. I admire innovation,- the Vision plan did't seem to last, but the B&R seems sound. I not witnessing any rigging failures that point to a fault with the design.
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Old 09-08-2014, 08:14   #11
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Re: Marlow-Hunter Rigging.

Doesn't the new Jeanneau 349 have about the same rig? It doesn't have a back stay and looks.from the video to mimic the B & R rig..
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Old 10-08-2014, 00:19   #12
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Re: Marlow-Hunter Rigging.

We owned a Hunter 450. No problems with the rig as far as reliability, but found the only shortcoming to be the amount the boom that could be sheeted out when sailing downwind without the mail sail ending up flattened against the shrouds. Which is an issue due to the rearward angle of the spreader and the risk of the spreader punching a hole through the sail.

The concern was partially solved by installing a boom brake or the use of a preventer because of the boats tendency to jibe when sailing downwind because the boom was unable to be let out far enough in order to prevent this happening. But it was still a PITA with many unscheduled and unexpected jibes taking place. In the end, we tended to avoid sailing directly down wind, which many times increased the distance traveled.

The boat and rig are just fine for what your neighbor intends to do... Coastal cruising. However, for long distance cruising with the prevailing winds coming from directly behind, the rig is an issue. But the shortcoming can be solved with the use of a poled out jib or the use of a cruising spinnaker and forgetting the mainsail altogether.
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Old 10-08-2014, 00:58   #13
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Re: Marlow-Hunter Rigging.

In the end, our final conclusion regarding the Hunter rig: We can't see any advantage to the rig... Only the disadvantage in it's down wind sailing ability. I really can't understand why Hunter decided on the "no back stay" approach. It's a "puzzlement."

I guess the fact that no other manufacturers have followed their lead.... Speaks volumes.

Ken
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Old 10-08-2014, 05:59   #14
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Yup. Having owned a boat with somewhat swept spreaders (not nearly as much as B&R) i recall what a PITA it could be sailing downwind. I can only imagine how much worse it would be with B&R rig. The counter point by many Hunter owners are that it's fastest to avoid dead downwind, but fact is DDW is often fastest route. Unless you're flying a large spinnaker or asymmetric, sailing downwind angles enough to fill jib is almost always slower due to increased distance sailed. And given the number of in mast furlers on Hunters, I don't think there are that many owners who are going to rig spinnakers with poles for faster DDW sailing. Which is totally fine, because cruisers don't usually want to work really hard at sail combinations.

A serious question, what IS the advantage of the B&R rig? I can see benefit on a planing sport boat that has a retractable sprit for chute and huge roached main. But on a cruiser?
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Old 12-08-2014, 08:15   #15
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Re: Marlow-Hunter Rigging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
In the end, our final conclusion regarding the Hunter rig: We can't see any advantage to the rig... Only the disadvantage in it's down wind sailing ability. I really can't understand why Hunter decided on the "no back stay" approach. It's a "puzzlement."

I guess the fact that no other manufacturers have followed their lead.... Speaks volumes.

Ken
And im glad no other manufactures follow this approach, i say it before in a old hunter topic some time agoo, this kind of rig its a Rigger nightmare and a chainplate killer, dificult to get a tight forestay tension, the prebend is insane, getting a almost perfect tunning require several trips with the bosum chair to the top diamond , its kind of a catamaran rig in a monohull with the diference than in a catamaran you have the uppers set in a wide angle respect of the mast centerline , the tension in the uppers is insane to get a tight forestay and a nice prebend, and no backstay,, anyone who experienced falling from the top of a wave know what im talking about, the downwind run is killed unless you fly a chute or a genaker , that big roachy main need to be reefed often to found a balance , mast is heavy due to thick mast profile and the boom ?' oh well heads down pls!!!!!
and i sail with this rig and i repair this kind of this rig , we dont want to see it in the rigging shop, thanks hunter is only using this weirdo thing....
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