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**estarzinger** · 17-03-2011, 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

A UV resistant thread is not something special. Polyester is pretty UV resistant on itself.

When I think of UV resistant thread I think about Tenara (its PTFE) - is about 10x uv resistant compared to polyester.

ADMPRTR · 17-03-2011, 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I did not say they are recommended. I said my sailmaker specifies them. And I like what they specify because it worked for what I did.

b.

Maybe I should said "rule of thumb", not "recommended". Anyway, thank you for your comments.

I spoke with my sailmaker and he indicated that the potential problem of a third reef is that the sail can rip and then you have lost your whole main where as if trysail rips your main is still available. However, that said, I have updated my sail order to include a third reef, just in case...

Andrew

ADMPRTR · 17-03-2011, 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

Evans, this is true. We have a small, reputable loft here in Toronto that I like to use, because I have a custom boat and there's always more measuring involved, and sometimes adjustments are required after a couple of hoists.

Mind if I ask who your loft is (we are also in TO), please? Feel free to PM me if you don't want to publicize it.

S/V Alchemy · 17-03-2011, 20:08

I have used Triton Sails in Mississauga. Across from Holland Marine. I think I'll use them to build our next main and a new, hardier staysail.

barnakiel · 17-03-2011, 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADMPRTR

I spoke with my sailmaker and he indicated that the potential problem of a third reef is that the sail can rip and then you have lost your whole main where as if trysail rips your main is still available.

What about the second reef then - it cannot rip? First reef?

The biggest damage I ever had to a sail was a main failure when we got wiped out with the 2nd in! Water caught in the bunt, sail ripped below the reef point ;-(.

I think I have sailed more rough miles under the 3rd than under the trysail. BTW our trysail is way smaller than our 3rd reef anyway.

b.

barnakiel · 17-03-2011, 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by estarzinger

When I think of UV resistant thread I think about Tenara (its PTFE) - is about 10x uv resistant compared to polyester.

Tenara creates its own set of issues when sewing and indeed will often have to be the boat owner's pick rather than the sailmaker's.

How does the sails sewn with Tenara perform on your boat? Any issues?

Tenara might be the best choice for Sunbrella pieces too. Probably well worth the little extra cost!

b.

barnakiel · 17-03-2011, 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

Now, no reflection on your habits, but I remember meeting a couple who were very proud they had done a circ on the same set of sails with only a couple of chafes and little tears. They attributed this to superior seamanship and the habit of "reef early and often". We had an entertaining evening, but the next day, when they left, they started their diesel and a cloud of appalling blue and then black smoke came out of their stern, and it sounded like a tractor being beaten by a bunch of asthmatics.

Seriously, it looked like a small tire fire.

I think I discovered their secret: 9,000 hours between rebuilds!

We started our RTW with a brand new set of sails from our loft in Sweden. And they lasted thru the whole adventure. But I am not quite as good a sailor as the couple you mentioned - we ripped the main badly in our Pacific wipe out and then the genoa got also badly ripped in the ITCZ off Brazil. In fact, I think that part of the genoa damage could have been due to the canvas being already past its best. Still, I fixed with 3M and sailed from there to the West Indies, Azores and on to the continent - another 6k Nm or so.

As for the 9000 hours between rebuilds, you tell me! I might be wrong but we used our engine less than 1500 on the RTW.

There are many ways to sail, ours is by using sails.

;-)
b.

Butler · 17-03-2011, 22:25

I decided to start cruising with a slightly lighter, simply constructed Hood Vectran main... (I think Vectran runs 7.8 oz.) with two deep reefs. This seemed like a good choice given much of the input here and elsewhere indicating that most of the time winds will be moderate to light. Very early green days localy so I dunno about the wisdom of this choice.

Don Street makes a bit of sense to me when he writes that a dedicated storm sail is best so you don't kick the crap out of main when it gets bad. On the other hand there is one highly experienced couple who wrote an interesting article in either sail or cruising world advocating a fourth reef instead of a trysail.

Has anyone ever used one of those really tall skinny Sweedish (speaking of Sweedish sails) storm sails I've heard of?

ADMPRTR · 18-03-2011, 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

What about the second reef then - it cannot rip? First reef?

The biggest damage I ever had to a sail was a main failure when we got wiped out with the 2nd in! Water caught in the bunt, sail ripped below the reef point ;-(.

I think I have sailed more rough miles under the 3rd than under the trysail. BTW our trysail is way smaller than our 3rd reef anyway.

b.

Obviously, the sail can rip at any time.

I think the point he was trying to make is that if, in a big blow, one depends only on the main, it may rip (reef or no reef). Therefore the theory is that instead of risking the main sail, put the risk on the trysail. If it gets damaged then it is a minor convenience instead of a major failure. As I do not have nor plan to purchase a trysail anytime soon, I am going with the third reef but I believe it is worth considering.

barnakiel · 18-03-2011, 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butler

(...) Has anyone ever used one of those really tall skinny Sweedish (speaking of Sweedish sails) storm sails I've heard of?

Googled Sweedish sails and nothing popped up. Such a thing does not exist;-)

Links, tips, clues ?

b.

SvenG · 18-03-2011, 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Googled Sweedish sails and nothing popped up. Such a thing does not exist;-)

They are probably right next to Ameerican sails

-Sven

barnakiel · 18-03-2011, 08:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

B., do you find merit in the sometimes heard contention that "tanbark" or otherwise coloured sails are more UV resistant than the usual white? This has been going around for years and may predate Dacron.

I ask because I don't care what colour the sails are, but I do care that they last, given all other weather variables.

I have heard this statement many times. I do not know if this is true or a legend. I can remember a thread where the thing was discussed but I think it related to awnings then. An most awnings are acrylic, hard to say how this relates to Polyester.

One explanation could be if the tan and storm orange cloth can only be had in pretty heavy weight. All other things equal, heavy Dacron beats the light one on UV resistance.

Another explanation could be the production process - if the paint contains UV stabilisers or simply protects the threads.

I have also noticed on my boat that many plastic elements last longer in the sun when they are colour than when they are white.

So these are all my guesses. In any case I would not like tan sails on my boat much as I would desire all my storm sails to be storm orange. Actually, I thought of making the top panels of our main in storm orange but I could only source heavy cloth. Maybe next time though.

Zeus here has tan sails and she looks awesome every time I see her on the harbour. I can also see her very early when they return from offshore. She is a Endurance ketch.

b.

barnakiel · 18-03-2011, 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by SvenG

They are probably right next to Ameerican sails

-Sven

Hej,

OK, a misspelling, I guess. But what sail is it then? Skinny Swedish storm sails? There is the high aspect storm jib, but I do not think it is a Swedish invention.

The only unusual sail on a Swedish boat I have seen was the inner jib set on the baby stay of Laurins.

Butler, speak up!

Cheers,
b.