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Old 22-09-2015, 13:39   #16
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Re: Main sheet stbd, Jib sheet port????

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Originally Posted by FSMike View Post
Right has more letters than left.
Starboard has more letters than port.
Green vs. red.
Main vs. jib.
Etc.
don't know if the above is the reason, but every boat I've ever been on followed that guideline, except the three Gulf stars I crewed on. the halyards were reversed, altho the color codes were right. Every boat has some thing different to it and new crew should be shown these differences. But there some things that should be left the same on all boats, to cut down the learning curve. you can only learn so much at a time. this is the reason for nautical terminology, to cut down on misunderstandings, which saves lives....ie...I'm new to a boat the first mate is out of action, we are in gale force winds and tall seas the capt'n is at the helm and wants the main shortened, I go to the strb side to lower the main halyard and douse the jib instead, not being ready to haul the jib on deck, we take a wave over the bow and fill the jib, which in turn weighs the bow down and we plow into the next wave and pitchpole. HHHmmmm there aren't many do overs at sea in fowl weather. its better to follow the tried and trued system than to try to take the time ,you don't have in a storm, to explain what you want someone to do. Port and starboard are always the same side of the boat no mater what way you are looking. no time lot explain with more than one word that might be partly drowned out by other noises. mis understandings can cost lives
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Old 22-09-2015, 14:01   #17
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Re: Main halyard stbd, jib halyard port??"?

I never thought there was a standard, but my boat is main starboard, jib port. Spin port (since that's where the cleat is)

I could easily reverse them (external halyards) but it came that way and it works.
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Old 22-09-2015, 14:07   #18
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Re: Main halyard stbd, jib halyard port??"?

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Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
IIRC, the French had a penchant for putting the main halyard to port. No idea why.
Because they can?

Just trying to remember 30-40 years back but as I recall all the boats I owned: US made (Morgan), Finnish and German all had the main halyard stbd side.
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Old 22-09-2015, 14:11   #19
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Re: Main halyard stbd, jib halyard port??"?

In racing circles there is a convention, but the convention changes depending on the course... Just follow along and I will see if I can explain it without getting all tied up... And keep in mind the labeling conventions, J1 and S1 refer to the primary jib halyard with J2 and S2 the secondary.

The main btw is ideally to the opposite side of the S1 and J1 halyards. To prevent it from getting opened by accident.

On a buoy race the convention is to leave the mark to port, so you want the J1 and S1 halyards accessible from the starboard (i.e. high side) as you round. this encourages you to push the main to port just to keep it out of the way and keep someone from grabbing it accidentally.

On an ocean race there are no marks, or they don't matter much so the same logic as for day racing doesn't apply. Instead the primary concern is the likelihood that you will need to do a head sail change early in the race. To do this safely you really want to be on starboard tack since that way you have right of way over everyone. So you want your S2 and J2 halyards on the starboard side (high side) meaning the S1 and J1 have to be on port.

On the Andrews 70' I worked for we would actually run around the boat with a label maker changing the labels of all the clutches as part of our conversion from inshore to offshore configuration (it also involved adding a deeper keel, and longer spinnaker pole, adding halyard locks on the mast, etc).

Personally I follow inshore rules on my boat, since most of what we do is just daysailing. For a cruiser I don't think it matters much, though I might go with offshore convention if you even have this tangle of spaghetti at the top of the mast.
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Old 22-09-2015, 15:41   #20
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Re: Main halyard stbd, jib halyard port??"?

It originated in tradition and then got locked-in (sort-of) with training arrangements.
Back in 60s, the RYA training manuals dictated the standardisation so that our students could be switched between vessels without any confusion. We also had colour standardised as well, but that would be for a full-on training school to do rather than the sort-of standard that would flow onwards to private vessels.
I suspect it originated a fair bit earlier than that and possibly relates back to the Navy as a regulation.
I would expect the French to reverse it if it was a British tradition, probably because of the very principle of "why adopt the Poms ideas of a standard when we can think for ourselves".
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Old 22-09-2015, 17:05   #21
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Re: Main halyard stbd, jib halyard port??"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
In racing circles there is a convention, but the convention changes depending on the course... Just follow along and I will see if I can explain it without getting all tied up... And keep in mind the labeling conventions, J1 and S1 refer to the primary jib halyard with J2 and S2 the secondary.

The main btw is ideally to the opposite side of the S1 and J1 halyards. To prevent it from getting opened by accident.

On a buoy race the convention is to leave the mark to port, so you want the J1 and S1 halyards accessible from the starboard (i.e. high side) as you round. this encourages you to push the main to port just to keep it out of the way and keep someone from grabbing it accidentally.

On an ocean race there are no marks, or they don't matter much so the same logic as for day racing doesn't apply. Instead the primary concern is the likelihood that you will need to do a head sail change early in the race. To do this safely you really want to be on starboard tack since that way you have right of way over everyone. So you want your S2 and J2 halyards on the starboard side (high side) meaning the S1 and J1 have to be on port.

On the Andrews 70' I worked for we would actually run around the boat with a label maker changing the labels of all the clutches as part of our conversion from inshore to offshore configuration (it also involved adding a deeper keel, and longer spinnaker pole, adding halyard locks on the mast, etc).

Personally I follow inshore rules on my boat, since most of what we do is just daysailing. For a cruiser I don't think it matters much, though I might go with offshore convention if you even have this tangle of spaghetti at the top of the mast.
OK. After reading this my previous conviction that I would never make a racer has been completely confirmed.
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Old 22-09-2015, 19:51   #22
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Re: Main halyard stbd, jib halyard port??"?

My Pearson has the main halyard on the port and jib on starboard. Doesn't mean it's original, but it works.
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Old 22-09-2015, 20:16   #23
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Re: Main halyard stbd, jib halyard port??"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
IIRC, the French had a penchant for putting the main halyard to port. No idea why.
Probably for the same reason old French charts used Paris, France as the prime meridian rather than Greenwich, England.
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Old 22-09-2015, 20:37   #24
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Re: Main halyard stbd, jib halyard port??"?

I'm half French, dang.
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Old 22-09-2015, 20:56   #25
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Re: Main halyard stbd, jib halyard port??"?

I have actually read all the responses for once. While a few came somewhat close I didn't see any that nailed it.

The practice is related to the halyard winches. While there are some that load counterclockwise most load clockwise. Prior to aluminum masts all halyards were external and even into the 1970s and possibly '80s the majority of aluminum masts had external halyards.

For strength and safety jib and main halyards both crossed across the top of the mast before coming down. Only secondary sails or sails with special need to have the head swivel a lot (spinnaker) had halyard blocks hanging from bails. The effect of this is that the main halyard tail exits at the front of the truck and the jib at the back. For winches mounted on the mast you want the halyard to come straight down the mast to load onto the winch, if it crosses over from front to back or visa versa it will drag some on the mast and spreaders and chafe a lot on the spreaders.

Since standard winches load on the right as you look down from on top that means you want the main on starboard and the jib on port.

As the relative cost of marine hardware has come down it became economical to add more pieces into the system moving the halyard winches first onto the deck and then back to the cockpit.


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Old 22-09-2015, 21:04   #26
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Re: Main halyard stbd, jib halyard port??"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
I have actually read all the responses for once. While a few came somewhat close I didn't see any that nailed it.

The practice is related to the halyard winches. While there are some that load counterclockwise most load clockwise. Prior to aluminum masts all halyards were external and even into the 1970s and possibly '80s the majority of aluminum masts had external halyards.

For strength and safety jib and main halyards both crossed across the top of the mast before coming down. Only secondary sails or sails with special need to have the head swivel a lot (spinnaker) had halyard blocks hanging from bails. The effect of this is that the main halyard tail exits at the front of the truck and the jib at the back. For winches mounted on the mast you want the halyard to come straight down the mast to load onto the winch, if it crosses over from front to back or visa versa it will drag some on the mast and spreaders and chafe a lot on the spreaders.

Since standard winches load on the right as you look down from on top that means you want the main on starboard and the jib on port.

As the relative cost of marine hardware has come down it became economical to add more pieces into the system moving the halyard winches first onto the deck and then back to the cockpit.


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That does seem quite logical.

So did you make this up yourself, figure it out or read it somewhere?
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Old 22-09-2015, 21:08   #27
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Re: Main halyard stbd, jib halyard port??"?

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That does seem quite logical.

So did you make this up yourself, figure it out or read it somewhere?
When I was being taught to sail loo those decades ago I asked and that was the answer. Since then I have seen nothing to disabuse me of it.

As previously implied internal halyards and leading stuff to the cockpit has changed some of the specifics, but I think it hangs on somewhat with those arrangements out of inertia.
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Old 22-09-2015, 21:13   #28
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Re: Main halyard stbd, jib halyard port??"?

With the main halyard on the starboard it allows you to be on the "high" side when on the starboard tack, with the added bonus you have the right of way when you are away from the wheel for a few minutes. This is a singlehanders perspective.
Primarily it is how boats are historically rigged and a sailor aboard any boat will instinctively go to the starboard to find the main halyard. Any boat with the main halyard on the port side is just rigged incorrectly.
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Old 22-09-2015, 21:39   #29
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Re: Main halyard stbd, jib halyard port??"?

Wow. Reading what Adelie posted, that's exactly why my halyards are run the way they are. Amazing that I never noticed it before. Thanks.
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Old 23-09-2015, 04:51   #30
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Re: Main halyard stbd, jib halyard port??"?

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Wow. Reading what Adelie posted, that's exactly why my halyards are run the way they are. Amazing that I never noticed it before. Thanks.
Yep, mine are wrong due to my kayak being on the starboard side and finger pier on port. I know that when I do use the winch to raise the main (last few feet) the halyard goes on the forward side of the winch and probably rubs on the spreader.

Reading this thread yesterday reminded me about the stopper blocks on most of todays boats so I checked them at the dock last night.

Just another thing to consider looking at boats since I'm so used to going to the mast to raise and low the main and to reef.
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