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osirissail · 04-12-2009, 07:33

Northeaster's deck stepped mast had a rather unorthodox way of turning the running rigging/halyards aft from the mast by mounting - as I believe he said - from 1 to 2 feet or so up the mast from the base. Having the lines running parallel to the cabin top down close to the cabin top rather than angling down would seem to be a rather wiser way to rig those lines and reduce deck hazards. Mainstream sailboats of his size range normally have all the turning blocks/sheaves mounted down at the base of the deck stepped mast, one for reducing clutter of lines raised off the deck and two for ease of manufacture. Garhauer's whole page of replacement plates supports that type of configuration.
- - Deck stepped mast's have several major advantages over keel stepped masts. One of which is obviously - no big hole in cabin top for the mast to pass through. Other include the ease of transmitting the upward "pull" of lines directly to the base of the mast eliminating the "pumping" problem. Even with a handmade large turning block/sheave plate like "delmarrey" has, the vast majority of the upward pull is still handled by the mast base and not the cabin top. It is an exercise in making a larger plate rigid enough to not want to bend upwards away from the cabin top.
- - If the cabin top around the mast base boot is cored then through bolting the larger plate will induce a crushing stress on the coring. Or induce through bolt movement as they pass through the cabin top and possible open up pathways for water to migrate into the coring or inside the cabin as the plate tries to flex upwards.
- - On the other hand using the fixed tilting turning sheaves corrects a major problem of line chafe as the lines pass through the deck organizer. I get a lot of chafe wear on lines in my deck organizers as the more flexible mast base sheaves alter the alignment of the lines as they pass through the deck organizers.
- - Another major advantage of deck stepped masts and base mounted turning blocks/sheaves came to light during Hurricane Ivan. My friend's Hunter 40 with deck stepped mast and a trademark Hunter traveler arch had the front 3 feet of bow sheared off by another boat during the hurricane. As the forestay was sheared loose, the mast tilted back and settled onto the traveler arch. The base of the mast was held close to the mast step by the running rigging and turning blocks/sheaves and the electrical cables. The 30+ feet of mast hanging out aft past the transom of the boat caused the bow to lift out of the water about 2 feet or more keeping the sea from entering the totally open interior of the boat. Keel stepped boats on both sides sunk quickly when their bows were sheared off. Chaulk up a good one for the deck stepped mast boats.
- - I am seeing more and larger mainstream sailboats with deck stepped masts these days. Although I suspect it is just a matter of their being more economical to manufacture and maintain.

delmarrey · 04-12-2009, 08:20

I would concur.............

The only advantage to a keel stepped mast that I see is if it were to break. Most masts break at the spreaders in which case would leave enough stick to rig some kind of sail to get one to port. But a 50/50 chance there too. Also, if working on the rig in port/at anchor one doesn't have to worry about the mast falling when releasing shrouds/stays.

If I ever un-step my mast I may convert it to a deck step. With the base of the keel stepped mast sitting in the bilge I'm constantly monitoring/dealing with erosion.

Stillraining · 04-12-2009, 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by delmarrey

I would concur.............

The only advantage to a keel stepped mast that I see is if it were to break. Most masts break at the spreaders in which case would leave enough stick to rig some kind of sail to get one to port. But a 50/50 chance there too. Also, if working on the rig in port/at anchor one doesn't have to worry about the mast falling when releasing shrouds/stays.

If I ever un-step my mast I may convert it to a deck step. With the base of the keel stepped mast sitting in the bilge I'm constantly monitoring/dealing with erosion.

Del there is a simpler solution for that...just raise the step up out of the nasty part of the bilge like this....mine had zero corrosion after 25 years.

delmarrey · 04-12-2009, 13:15

Yeah! I'm going to have to do something. The mast is not so bad but the deck collar looks pretty nasty. At least it's only rain water coming down the mast.

Northeaster · 04-12-2009, 15:14

Lots of good info exchanged here.

re: my boat, originally only 3 lines were set up to be led aft, to the cockpit, as there were 2 winches and cleats on one side of the cabintop, and 1 set on the other. As it was only 3 lines coming aft (and it was 1978!!!) they used blocks on a couple of padeye type attachment points , on the deck and mast, to bring them aft. As I wanted to bring about 7 lines aft, I added the organizers, and made it work with blocks on the mast as well.
However, there is a lot more clutter, with 7 blocks attached to different points on the mast, than with the original 3, so that's why I am looking into a plate / mast bracket.
Will measure in a week or two, and then check the Garhauer site. For $40 or so, it's not worth making my own!

delmarrey · 04-12-2009, 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northeaster

re: my boat, originally only 3 lines were set up to be led aft, to the cockpit, as there were 2 winches and cleats on one side of the cabintop, and 1 set on the other. As it was only 3 lines coming aft (and it was 1978!!!) they used blocks on a couple of padeye type attachment points , on the deck and mast, to bring them aft. As I wanted to bring about 7 lines aft, I added the organizers, and made it work with blocks on the mast as well.
However, there is a lot more clutter, with 7 blocks attached to different points on the mast, than with the original 3, so that's why I am looking into a plate / mast bracket.

You should be so lucky!

When I first bought mine it had 12 winches scattered around the boat. 6 on the cabin top, 4 in the cockpit and 2 at the helm. Single handing about ran me to death. Now it's down to 7 winches. 2 on the cabin top, 4 in the cockpit and 1 at the helm for the roller furling. The only time I leave the cockpit now is when I want to.

Under full sail I have 12 lines coming into the cockpit, 13 if I ever had to adjust the boom vang.

Extemporaneous · 04-12-2009, 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by delmarrey

and 1 at the helm for the roller furling.

delmarrey,
How is the 1 at the helm setup (placed) for the roller furling?
Do you have any good pic's?
I'd be interested.

Regards,
Extemp.

delmarrey · 04-12-2009, 23:18

I set it up so it's right next to the helm. When I'm pulling into a marina or up to an anchorage I can haul it in without leaving the helm. My genoa winches are not self-tailing but I have jam cleats. So as I come in I have just one wrap on the winch and the sheet wedged in the jam cleat and leading back to the helm.

When I'm ready I pull the sheet from the jam cleat and start winching in the roller furling drum line and the winch keeps the genoa sheet tight with enough tension to keep the genoa from flopping.

I usually only have to use the winch handle for a couple wraps around the foil, then I can haul it in the rest of the way by hand. In light air I don't need the winch handle. The nice thing about the winch is I can ease off the genoa drum line gently w/o burning the gloves.

In the pictures it's the small winch port side aft right next to the power cord receptacle. There is no line in it while it's on the hard. The line runs thru blocks attached to the safety rails back to a cheek block and on to the winch. There's a cam cleat to hold the line right next to the winch.

I'll get a better shot of it tomorrow if it doesn't snow.

delmarrey · 05-12-2009, 14:20

Here they are. When the line is hauled in I coil it up and hang it over the winch to get it off the deck. Please excuse the bird crap on the deck. At least the berry season is over.

osirissail · 05-12-2009, 14:45

Very good looking system. If you get the money upgrade to self tailing winches. You can normally sell your old winches in the boating second hand shops like Sailorman or even on eBay.
- - I love that modification you made in photo #3 - I have always wanted to be able to steer the boat from the main mast - I see you have a mounted steering wheel there. How does that work out?

Extemporaneous · 05-12-2009, 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by delmarrey

Here they are. When the line is hauled in I coil it up and hang it over the winch to get it off the deck.

Thanks for sharing.
Looks nicely setup.
Got to say, I'm a bit envious of all the flat spots you have for wenches.

Regards,
Extemp.

delmarrey · 05-12-2009, 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by osirissail

Very good looking system. If you get the money upgrade to self tailing winches. You can normally sell your old winches in the boating second hand shops like Sailorman or even on eBay.
- - I love that modification you made in photo #3 - I have always wanted to be able to steer the boat from the main mast - I see you have a mounted steering wheel there. How does that work out?

Yeah, I've been keeping my eye out for some up to date winches but it's hard to find 16.5:1 and 12.5:1 but I'd sill have to keep the jam cleats so I can release the sheets from the helm.

The wheel?

Oh yeah! I have to store it up there when it's not in use so I can move around the cockpit w/o have to climb up on the deck. Even when I'm sailing I spend most of my time forward of the pedestal. I'm only back there for is some motoring, tacking or pulling in port, I can steer from the front or side of the pedestal.

Extem........... My wenches are not flat! OH! Winches? I mean ........

I rebuilt the cockpit to soot myself. They're great for standing on for re-flaking the main onto the boom. I now have non-skids between the winches and they are far enough apart to sit ones butt.

Here's the cockpit project if interested....... http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...cer-18768.html