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Old 11-11-2007, 21:34   #1
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Lines From Leech To Topping Lift

I see two boats in my marina with small blocks and lines from the leech of the mainsail to the topping lift...and neither boat have lazy jacks...

Are these lines intended to keep the sail from falling on the deck when dousing?
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Old 12-11-2007, 01:05   #2
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What you are looking at is a "Dutchman" furling system. Works a lot like lazy jacks, except the lines thread up through the sail. Like all sailing inventions some people swear by it, others swear at it.

Info from the manufacturer here: MVBInfo.com -- Dutchman
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Old 12-11-2007, 03:17   #3
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That's what I first thought but there are no vertical lines from the topping lift to the boom...these are a bunch of horizontal lines from the leech of the sail to the topping lift...making it appear like the leech of the sail is tied to the topping lift in a half dozen or more places..sorry for not being clear...
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Old 12-11-2007, 10:02   #4
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Sounds like a question to ask one of the skippers of the boats you see. Are they on just one side of the sail?
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Old 12-11-2007, 12:29   #5
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Old 13-11-2007, 20:41   #6
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I called the owner of one of the boats with this setup on his Catalina 30..seems it's originated with a North Sail he had that used gromments on the leech with small lines tied to some metal rings that slide up and down the topping lift, thus no need for lazy jacks or dutchmans... he says it works quite well and had them put on his new sail....it seems so incredibly simple...and he said we could easily figure out the proper spacing for grommets to add to my mainsail while I'm having it converted to a loosefooted main

I'll try to go get pictures this weekend..
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Old 14-11-2007, 00:09   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchaser2304 View Post
it's originated with a North Sail he had that used gromments on the leech with small lines tied to some metal rings that slide up and down the topping lift, thus no need for lazy jacks or dutchmans... he says it works quite well and had them put on his new sail...

I'll try to go get pictures this weekend..
Sounds simple! But one can draw anything (e.g. three legged forks).

The topping lift would have to be totally slack and would work it's way towards the mast as the sail drops. And, one would have to have a rigid boom vang to keep the boom from dropping.

A video would be the best thing for this.
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Old 14-11-2007, 08:50   #8
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I was thinking that the leech would hang up on the topping lift because of friction resulting in the luff coming down but the leech hanging there. It must work but I would think the Dutchman is a much better system or even a good set of lazy jacks. Metal rings on the topping lift doesn't appeal to me, especially when it's slack and flogging around a bit. However, it's interesting to see something different.
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Old 29-11-2007, 19:08   #9
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I found out it's called a "Lazy Mate" system that was used at one time by Catalina Yachts...no wonder I found it on two Catalina boats. It consists of ~~~ 7-9 small grommets along the leech from the clew to the head with 3/16" line tied to each grommet then back a few inches (different length for each one) through a small S/S ring for each grommet that slides on the topping lift, then back tied to the same grommet...that's the basic idea anyway. The topping lift line is loose when the main is up anyway, so this arrangement makes the topping lift harmlessly (roughly) follow the leech under sail...I'll have the grommets added to my leech at roughly the location of each luff slug as long as it is in for repairs anyway.
Then the lazy jacks can come off (yea! no more batten catching), the foot boltrope does not go back in the boom so I can try it loosefooted, and and I can build my customized leave-on-boom sailcover using the boom rope slot without needing to accomodate for the lazy jacks.

It just seems like if this lazy mate system worked as well as it seems like it should, it would be on more boats..oh well, it's worth a try anyway eh?
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Old 30-11-2007, 07:47   #10
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According to North Sails, the “Lazy Mate”* sail flaking system is no longer being manufactured, and recommend the Harken “Lazy Jack” system.

* US Patent 5327842 (Sail control system), issued to Richard B. Bailey (July 12, 1994).
United States Patent: 5327842
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Old 27-11-2008, 15:54   #11
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I have a Lazy Mate mains'l flaking system on my Westsail 32 and can't say enough good about it. (BTW it is not a Lazy Jack - battens never hang up - and it is not a Dutchman - these are totally different flaking systems). If you keep the topping lift fairly tight as you lower the main (while pointing dead into the wind of course and boom resting on gallows) then each loop of line, which is parachute cord in my case, (from leach to ring on topping lift then back to leach) gradually tightens as you lower the sail, the rings slowly descend down the topping lift, and the sail flakes very neatly over the boom. At severl hundreds of dollars a copy for Lazy Jacks, I can understand why ProFurl recommends them over a Lazy Mate. I rebuilt the Lazy Mate for $20. I suspect more boats don't have them because most sailors have never even heard of them. After all, who in their right mind would advertize a $20 flaking system with a view to making a 5 or $10 profit when they could sell you a Lazy Jack at a $200+ profit or a Dutchman at several times that profit margin? I love my Lazy Mate and will never be without one. Have never had battens hang up or the flaking lines tangle. I'll post a couple of photos over the weekend as long as I can remember to take the camera along. I'll take a couple of pictures as we drop the main, because when you see it in action it's just so obvious.
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Old 12-04-2009, 19:47   #12
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I see back in November I promised a couple of pictures of the Lazy Mate flaking system. Finally got a couple in March... One shows the flaking lines attached, the other is the main flaked relatively neatly over the boom. Haven't tried flaking by myself yet, but with one hand on the halyard and the other giving each ring its final tug as it gets within reach, I believe it's quite doable.
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Old 12-04-2009, 20:55   #13
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Of course then there is the Doyle stack pack system. (full battened main with a Tides track and slides). Let go the main halyard and the sail drops into the attached sail cover, pull the zipper cord and it closes and you're done. All from the cockpit.
Not $20
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