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Old 04-12-2012, 04:10   #16
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Re: Lifelines

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Originally Posted by Wand View Post
Er, yes it can!
Wave or "wall"?

With a wall it is possible I suppose but unlikely that 24" high lifelines will hold you. You were lucky!
I won't be conducting any experiments to check this out
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:15   #17
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Re: Lifelines

Look at Morris day sailors. I think they have some sort of removable lifeline system. Maybe it is just to make their boats look good in sales photos. www.morrisyachts.com will get you a peek.]
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:32   #18
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Re: Lifelines

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Going over the fence is one option; that's why I prefer mine higher. But perhaps the more common way of going overboard is through the fence, carried by a wall of water. In that circumstance, the fence will very likely save you. A fence would also likely save you from a simple slip-slide on the side deck, caused perhaps by a sudden unexpected motion, or even something as simple as stepping on a sheet. Whatever, I agree 24" is too low; it may be a minimum for racing but wise cruisers build them higher.
The OP is on a 25footer. As a Bay Sailor it will never see a "wall of water". Little day boats dont need a fence my opinion- especially one at 24inches.. Will we expect them to sport liferafts next? Stauntions on small boats are no where near as important as they are on larger offshore boats. The OPs money would be better spent updating his first aid kit before his lifelines.
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:36   #19
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Re: Lifelines

I would put them back on and it wouldn't even have crossed my mind not to. All the talk about them being useless is just talk!
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:46   #20
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Re: Lifelines

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Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
I would put them back on and it wouldn't even have crossed my mind not to. All the talk about them being useless is just talk!
They are certainly not "useless". It is just that they may give a false sense of security. Without them on a small boat like this, I think you are more likely to take greater precautions and this may be of greater benefit.

I must admit they are certainly very handy clothes lines .
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:55   #21
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Re: Lifelines

Lifelines are only a false sense of security if the stanchions are going to rip thru a rotten deck. If it is really rough out you will be crawling anyway so they are not a tripping hazard. I vote put them back on.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:05   #22
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Re: Lifelines

Hi Blue Crab,

I am in the process of upgrading from 24" to 30" stanchions as well as the pushpit and pulpit.

I have also sailed a fair amount on boats with both the shorter and longer versions, so here are a few observations FWIW.

First, any solid setup is good to have and much better than nothing at all. If you are sailing in flat water you might be standing straight up and yes the top height of the stanchion could catch you under the knee and facilitate your unscheduled exit from the boat. But, if you are that close to the edge you will probably fall over anyway if you do not have toe rails and lifelines!

I do not see that as a terribly likely scenario, but it's a boat, anything can happen.

Keep in mind that 30", which is the often cited solution to the short stanchion problem is still only 6" higher. In the above flat water example, it will catch you above the knee, but your center of mass is still significantly higher than that and you are still likely to take a swim if forced against the lines or stanchions.

So, the previous posters remark about one hand for you and one for the ship is always important here.

I have boats without toerails and lifelines and I only use them for bay sailing.

For offshore work, which is what I am preparing for now, I want the tallest lifeline and the tallest (and strongest) stanchions, toerail or bulwarks I can get. For my Cartwright 36, 30 inches is about the best I can do before the height interferes with other things like headsails. If I could, I would use 36 or 40 inch, but that is really only practical on big ships or at least ships bigger than my means.

I am limited in time and money for new toerails, so I will not change the 2" version I have now, but I would not go to sea without them.

Regarding actual usage, I find that at the times I really want the backup of the lifelines, and I do stress backup here, are times when the boat is heeled, it is frisky out, and usually wet on the deck. I am not as concerned about being flipped over the lifelines as slipping and falling and sliding/tumbling over the side. That is why I always want the toerails as well. In these conditions I usually run port and starboard jacklines and tether in, but up on the pointy end it would still be easy to go over the side even with a short tether.

Now all I have to do is choose the best combination of quality and price from a supplier.

Regards,

Todd
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:02   #23
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Re: Lifelines

I prefer not having them. Most are inefficient and create a false sense of security. Most, not all though.

Not politically correct I'm sure. Derision to follow no doubt.
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:34   #24
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Re: Lifelines

I took mine off to fix deck leaks and repaint. left them off for two years. got to like it. Crew had a hard time adjusting. Put them back on everyone feels more secure and handy tiedown points for fender boards and extra fuel cans. also good for the rail meat when racing!
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:41   #25
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Re: Lifelines

Stanchions with a midpoint stainless ring can hide some weakening corrosion over time as you notice where this one broke when heavily stressed.....


This one was pulled off with a short term sheet wrap from a big cruising chute.......


This started me on a replacement schedule. I would think it's better to have the lower lifeline through the stanchion rather than the collar.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:15   #26
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pirate Re: Lifelines

Appreciate the comments. Just what I was after. Tell you all one scary deal is walking on deck now up on the cradle with lifelines off. I have a beautiful Awl-gripped deck. I know cuz I see it from hands and knees. I'll miss those lifelines, they're real handy for lots of things. Their design of piercing a cored deck with a lever arm is crap tho, IMO.

I'd happily reinstall if I thought they'd save me in a pinch but I don't. Think I'll fix the damage per RoverHi so my butt is covered if I change my mind down the line, but for now leave them off and move on to other projects. I came here by boat, and I'm leaving by boat, not box or urn.

They have winter here. Gots to get south.
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Old 04-12-2012, 21:48   #27
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Re: Lifelines

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Originally Posted by Blue Crab View Post
I have a beautiful Awl-gripped deck. I know cuz I see it from hands and knees.
Awlgrip still gets on hands and knees? Then deck is not dry yet, give it another day.

Great idea, leave them off - you can always install the stanchions later, whenever you run out of things to do, just plop one in. That way it won't take that long....

Some Gunk will be helpful though to keep the water out of that coring!

Cheers
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Old 05-12-2012, 00:36   #28
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Re: Lifelines

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Some Gunk will be helpful though to keep the water out of that coring! Cheers Ovi

Heh. "some gunk". I research everything. I try to always get the good stuff. Then ya get on here and read some guy's going to use silicone bathtub caulk on his ports. 20 years later, he'll swear it never leaked. Hell, you can peel it from the edge of the tub after a few months.

I swore I'd never get another boat needing TLC but I hear that $$$ siren song every time.
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Old 05-12-2012, 03:40   #29
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Re: Lifelines

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I'm thinking of not putting my 24" stanchions and lifelines back on the boat. Most of the deck has been recored once and all stanchions were leaking when I went on the hard. I'd prefer jacklines and while I'm in great shape for 70, if that's not oxymoronic, I'm not as agile as I used to be.

Kids/pets/racing aren't a factor. I have a pulpit and pushpit. Poking around on the net I found that going without these low and ineffective stanchions is common (tho I don't know of a boat without 'em). I'd like to hear comments on going without.
I did something on my ketch that has worked for years, but I'd appreciated comments on. I wired 1x1x24-inch hardwood pieces to the main and mizzen upper shrouds that rest on the lower swages. Lifelines go thru holes drilled near the top and bottom of each wooden piece. They are attached to the fwd and aft pulpits as usual. Upper lifeline is thus about 36" above the deck. No stanchions!

I figured the chainplates are stronger than any stanchions. And there's no chafing. Lifelines are 1/4" StaSet X.

Your thoughts?
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Old 05-12-2012, 04:41   #30
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Re: Lifelines

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I figured the chainplates are stronger than any stanchions. And there's no chafing. Lifelines are 1/4" StaSet X
Well, if it works for you then good! Seems like a reasonable thing to do. How long is the rope's span?

Two points:

* While all chainplates are good for pulls vertically, some are not happy about sideways pulls. I have seen such abuse start them leaking.

* StaySet-X is pretty stretchy stuff for lifelines. Better would be Dyneema or the like. What happens when you put all your weight against them? Can you sit on them?
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