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Old 02-12-2013, 19:18   #91
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Re: LED Anchor Light

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Originally Posted by Neptune's Gear View Post
Yes, you can make your own cheaply. But they almost certainly will not be as good, robust, or certified colreg compliant. This MAY have insurance implications in the event of an accident.
The optolamp has a MTBF (mean time between failures) of 50,000 hours. The Amazonia Mirim 111 has Anchor, Tri-color, Strobe, Auto on off etc. Hard to match that with a home made one!
See my website below if you're interested...
Matt
Hum my home made led light only has a 30,000 MTBF for the Light bulb unit, has non-polarized wiring, adjusts current with voltages from 9.5 to 30 volts ac/dc and maintains stable light output. Its bright, waterproof and easily meets the 2 nm CG requirement.

The optolamp uses discrete led bulbs, and each bulb has a MTBF of 50k. That's for a single led. But it has 24 leds, so MTBF for the unit might be only 20k hours or somewhat less. But then, that's why ad copy is written by sales and not by engineers.

It not a bad light, which BTW is high praise from me :-). Its a little pricey when you compare it to the old bebe owl lights for example. But then that certification costs a bit for the third party testing. Its a nice design. But think I'll stick with my $25 dollar back stay mounted anchor light that doubles as a deck light.
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Old 02-12-2013, 19:18   #92
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Re: LED Anchor Light

I got one of these from AquaSignal:



AQUA SIGNAL SERIES 34 LED TRI-COLOUR ANCHOR LIGHT Binnacle.com

Has all compliances, backed by a well known manufacturer, uses same removable base as Aquasignal Series 40, and at $250. cheaper than many of the unknown brands.

It hasn't got a strobe, but I'm not sure that is a proper navigation light ?

Cheers,
JM.
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Old 02-12-2013, 20:55   #93
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Re: LED Anchor Light

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Originally Posted by Neptune's Gear View Post
Yes, you can make your own cheaply. But they almost certainly will not be as good, robust, or certified colreg compliant.
The third point - certified COLREG compliance, is of course indisputable. The other two points are down to the knowledge and craftsmanship of the individual, I would think.

So, how long is the warranty on the LED navigation lights and fixtures that you sell? It seems to be a sticking point with some suppliers.
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Old 02-12-2013, 21:13   #94
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Re: LED Anchor Light

Yep, if you are an engineer with the appropriate knowledge and equipment, I'm sure a better light could be made. That's why I said "almost certainly"

By all means, go ahead, make your own if you wish, there is certainly satisfaction in doing that. But most will buy, because they don't have the knowledge or time to do otherwise.

Optolamp warranty is 2 years. Current draw at 12v is 0.15a

A strobe is NOT a requirement of the colregs. It may not even be a legal nav light, but it is VERY effective in an emergency, has much greater range than the colregs lights, and is fitted to most (possibly all??) the round the world racers for this reason. The Optolamp version also has a vertical emission (4nm range) to assist in location by aircraft in an emergency.

I looked around, and I have fitted an Optolamp to my boat. I've been really pleased with it, which is why I now resell them. Ours has now done over 10,000nm. It's great! One of the best features is the auto on/off - no more forgetting to turn on the anchor light when leaving the boat in the daytime, in case you are back after dark.

BUT you must make up your own mind whats best for you - I'm not the worlds expert on anything, and I'm not forcing these on anyone, just trying to make sure that you all know what's out there.

Cheers
Matt
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Old 02-12-2013, 21:25   #95
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Re: LED Anchor Light

Do the optolights meet EU emissions standards?
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Old 02-12-2013, 21:36   #96
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Re: LED Anchor Light

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Optolamp warranty is 2 years.
There's your problem, right there.

LED technology can be quite robust if the proper engineering is done. Considering the prices commanded, if LED nav light manufacturers aren't willing to produce a 5+ year product and stand behind it, then I would respectfully say that boat-owners must still be a bit skeptical about the field as a whole.

(One of the joys of DIY is learning firsthand how LEDs will fail in the field. My first sample lasted one season; my current set, with improvements and protections incorporated, are still hanging in.)
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Old 03-12-2013, 04:37   #97
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Re: LED Anchor Light

I looked at a lot and the best one I found was a Signal Mate. 3 nm. MISEA LED Navigation Lights, All-Round White at West Marine

They are are all too expensive IMO.
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Old 03-12-2013, 05:36   #98
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Re: LED Anchor Light

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Yes, you can make your own cheaply. But they almost certainly will not be as good, robust, or certified colreg compliant. This MAY have insurance implications in the event of an accident.
As far as Im aware , certainly outside the US, and Im not even sure inside the Us for leisure boats , there is no specific compliance testing of leisure boat lights, There certainly isn't in Europe.

Furthermore, the insurance bogeyman, is alive and well. Unless you know for a fact that insurance is affected , you comments have no standing. Certainly in my policy there his no clause that say the vessels must be kept in "class" or anything like that.

Dave
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Old 03-12-2013, 05:56   #99
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Re: LED Anchor Light

So, any comments or testing on RF noise on the various alternatives?

I have now tried two led tri colors, and both produced significant RF noise on the AUS frequency, and unfortunately my AIS/VHF antennae is right next to the tricolor. When I have turned these units on I can see my AIS reception range drop by half.

The both have had "CE" stamps on their packages, so that clearly does not provide any reassurance on the RF issue.

Got to say I feel a bit "burned" by the LED industry, because in addition to the RF problem, I have had two lopo lights fail at very low hours. They have replaced them, but as you all know that's a pain in the ass when you are cruising with no mailing address or car. And I no longer trust them.
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Old 03-12-2013, 06:09   #100
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Re: LED Anchor Light

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As far as Im aware , certainly outside the US, and Im not even sure inside the Us for leisure boats , there is no specific compliance testing of leisure boat lights, There certainly isn't in Europe.

Furthermore, the insurance bogeyman, is alive and well. Unless you know for a fact that insurance is affected , you comments have no standing. Certainly in my policy there his no clause that say the vessels must be kept in "class" or anything like that.

Dave
Dave, many insurance policies will not cover you if you are "performing an illegal or dishonest act". In theory, running non-colreg compliant nav lights is as illegal as not keeping a proper watch. And again, in theory, if the light mfg does not certify the lights are compliment, then you could have difficulty proving they are if it was challenged by the insurance company.

However, in the real world, I am only aware of one insurance case where it has come up (my wife is in the marine insurance biz).
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Old 03-12-2013, 06:26   #101
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Re: LED Anchor Light

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Dave, many insurance policies will not cover you if you are "performing an illegal or dishonest act". In theory, running non-colreg compliant nav lights is as illegal as not keeping a proper watch. And again, in theory, if the light mfg does not certify the lights are compliment, then you could have difficulty proving they are if it was challenged by the insurance company.

However, in the real world, I am only aware of one insurance case where it has come up (my wife is in the marine insurance biz).
exactly my point, unless there is a specific legal requirement that requires that lights are certified to operate within a specific set of parameters ( Note the COLREG does not require certification), Then it is simply sufficient to say that you did not knowing set out to install inferior or sub performing lights, no more then it would be to fit a knowingly faulty engine, which then caused a claimable incident.

my understanding is that once an insurance company accept the contract of insurance, unless you specifically carry out a significant negligent act, you are covered. Simply that you did something illegal is not grounds to terminate your insurance, ( if it was most insurance won't be very useful). Of course if you specifically make a false declaration thats different


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Old 03-12-2013, 06:39   #102
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Re: LED Anchor Light

i am all for saving money, and have engineering experience in high-output LED lights.

if your so hard up for a buck, that you would not spend $100 on a name brand, LED, anchor light, then your asking to be cut in half by my blunt bow.
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Old 03-12-2013, 06:47   #103
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Re: LED Anchor Light

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is simply sufficient to say that you did not knowing set out to install inferior or sub performing lights.

my understanding is that once an insurance company accept the contract of insurance, unless you specifically carry out a significant negligent act, you are covered. Simply that you did something illegal is not grounds to terminate your insurance
The first point (ignorance as a defense) is interesting. Probably there is very complex case law on it. To your point here . . . You can (try to) claim that you assumed a light sold as a nav light was "fit for purpose". I agree with you that sounds like it should be a good defense . . . But if somewhere in the MFG's website or material it explicitly says the light either does not meet, or has not been shown/tested to meet colreg specs, then the defense weakens significantly.

On the second point (illegal acts), it is company by company, but you are wrong for many marine policies. Many policies have clauses that will not cover you if you are performing an "illegal or dishonest act". Just as an (extreme) example, If you get boat insurance, and then the authorities sink your boat while catching you in the act of drug running . . . Many policies would not pay out. And also, for example, if you set fire to your boat (and are caught) they will not usually pay out.

I happen to be quite aware of this because there is a big case right now . . . Boater was very slightly over the legal alcohol level, hit an unlit barge and destroyed his boat and killed a passenger. Every expert observer suggests that the unlit barge was a hazard that "anyone" could have hit. But the alcohol level gives both the state prosicution a case for manslaughter and the insurance co a possible out (... There are some complications I am skating over ).

In autos (in the us) there is a standard (set by the government regulation) that they will still payout the 3rd party liability, but will not cover you or your car in these sorts if situations. However there is no such government I forced standard in marine insurance.

Note: there have been homeowner cases where a meth lab in the basement explodes. Some policies pay out (because the explosion was an 'accident') and others do not (because the explosion was part if an illegal act).
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Old 03-12-2013, 06:56   #104
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Re: LED Anchor Light

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...there is no specific compliance testing of leisure boat lights, There certainly isn't in Europe...

Yes, there is. While the UK has a national certificate for equipment meeting COLREG requirements it doesn't enforce their use (see COLREG Rule 22 minimum distances), other countries have rules for their flagged ships. In Germany it is the BSH (Bundesamt fuer Seeschifffahrt und Hydrographie) which is responsible for certifying pleasure craft navigation lights (Deutsches Hydrographisches Institut (DHI) does the test), and there are published cases of using non-certified leading to partial fault in collisions.

That is just one example I know of.
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Old 03-12-2013, 07:04   #105
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Re: LED Anchor Light

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and there are published cases of using non-certified leading to partial fault in collisions.
cite please

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While the UK has a national certificate for equipment meeting COLREG requirements it doesn't enforce their use
citation required, The UK is in the EU , it cannot have specifically separate rules.

Quote:
In Germany it is the BSH (Bundesamt fuer Seeschifffahrt und Hydrographie) which is responsible for certifying pleasure craft navigation lights
Im am not aware these rules apply to leisure craft. The only rules that apply to coastal leisure craft in the EU and that include both the UK and Germany is the RCD. AT present the RCD does not require a certified light. The fitting must be CE approved, but that approval does not include light characteristics

dave
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