Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-07-2014, 11:47   #1
Registered User
 
crazyoldboatguy's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chicago
Boat: Alden auxiliary ketch 48'
Posts: 857
Leading Main Halyard Below Deck

I have this bizarre idea that I thought I would throw out for general comments, hysterical laughing and merciless ridicule.

I am reconstructing a 47' auxiliary ketch - it is basically a new boat from the keel to truck. It is a pilot house vessel with a cutter rig. I plan on having a hard dodger coming off the pilot house leading aft that will cover the cockpit, provide mounting for solar panels and generally interfere with my access to both the main and mizzen boom. I have looked into leading halyards and reefing lines back into the cockpit even on my 28' Pearson Triton. For those familiar, the Triton has a 2 level cabin allowing for 6' headroom in the main cabin. This makes leading halyards, etc, aft since the lines would have to either travel suspended over the forward cabin or would have to be turned upward once they reach the main cabin. Currently, on the Triton, I go to the mast to raise/lower/reef.

I am wanting to avoid having to go forward on the larger vessel (not getting any younger). I will have to secure the masts as the originals are wood, not in good shape, solid and HEAVY. I will likely buy aluminum - would like CF but probably will avoid that expense. Leading halyards/reefing lines aft when there is a pilot house and hard dodger means lots of turns, entries into the pilot house facing forward - all things I desire to avoid. I can lead the reefing (slab) lines to the end of the boom - not a problem. I could have an electric winch on the mast for the halyard but that doesn't eliminate having to go forward. Unless (here comes the weird part) I lead the halyard (internal) to the base of the mast, below deck. That would mean the halyard could be controlled from below decks in all kinds of weather without having crew go forward. I haven't worked out all the issues but thought I would post here so as to provide some merriment from the august body here. Your thoughts and derisive laughter are appreciated!
__________________

__________________
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
crazyoldboatguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-07-2014, 11:49   #2
Registered User
 
crazyoldboatguy's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chicago
Boat: Alden auxiliary ketch 48'
Posts: 857
Re: leading main halyard below deck

I should have edited before posting. I meant to say I have to secure NEW masts....
__________________

__________________
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
crazyoldboatguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-07-2014, 12:15   #3
Registered User
 
Terra Nova's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: Freya 39 cutter- Terra Nova
Posts: 3,645
Re: leading main halyard below deck

Explore traditional methods, first.
__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
Terra Nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-07-2014, 12:21   #4
Registered User
 
crazyoldboatguy's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chicago
Boat: Alden auxiliary ketch 48'
Posts: 857
Re: leading main halyard below deck

I've been sailing for 50 years - maybe I haven't seen everything but I've seen a lot. I will be using lazy jacks. I will eschew in mast furling (more expensive mast, more weight aloft, don't like the sail shape). I will eschew in boom furling (expensive) and will be using the original wood booms. I have rejected using fixed boom mounted sail covers (I prefer loose footed mainsails - useless with drop in sail covers).

Am I missing something? What other "traditional" methods would you suggest?
__________________
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
crazyoldboatguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-07-2014, 12:35   #5
Registered User
 
TeddyDiver's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arctic Ocean
Boat: Under construction 35' ketch
Posts: 1,826
Images: 2
Re: leading main halyard below deck

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy View Post
Am I missing something? What other "traditional" methods would you suggest?
You have a ketch so dump the boom and set brails. First reef is the main brailled away on the mast.
__________________
TeddyDiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-07-2014, 12:50   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,352
Re: leading main halyard below deck

Your big boat will be far more comfortable and stable when you go to the mast. You need to see the sails when you are using the halyard. Put on Sissy Bars if you need more body support at the mast. K.I.S.S.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-07-2014, 12:59   #7
Registered User
 
crazyoldboatguy's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chicago
Boat: Alden auxiliary ketch 48'
Posts: 857
Re: leading main halyard below deck

Sissy bars - heh heh.

I grappled with the idea you need to see the mast when raising/lowering. It made my idea untenable but still intriguing. Perhaps an "up mast" camera would do the trick. I think I have one left over from my frat days.

I like the idea of the brails but wonder what I do to cover the sail once it is gathered against the mast. Excess windage is also an issue unless you can lower the brailed sail.

I thought of doing the brails vertically using them as an assist to gather the sail as it is lowered so that I can avoid having to go on the deck and affixing gaskets. It still leaves me with the issue of raising and lowering. Not to mention the issue of chafe.
__________________
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
crazyoldboatguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-07-2014, 14:58   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Port Ludlow Wa
Boat: Makela,Ingrid38,Idora
Posts: 1,973
Re: Leading Main Halyard Below Deck

No matter what evolution you are conducting, your situational awareness is paramount. There is no such thing below decks. I can see you running up and down the companionway, unable to be in two places at one time. Meanwhile some form of disaster unfolds.
__________________
IdoraKeeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-07-2014, 15:32   #9
Registered User
 
crazyoldboatguy's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chicago
Boat: Alden auxiliary ketch 48'
Posts: 857
Re: Leading Main Halyard Below Deck

Hey, it was fun thinking about it. Doesn't seem likely I will do it. I like the idea of avoiding the foredeck in heavy weather but it doesn't seem possible from that angle. Still looking at lazy jacks, non-slip shoes and jacklines. Reducing sail at the first sign of trouble still leaves me with 2 headsails and a sizeable mizzen-main. It's why I think the ketch is the best cruising rig.

Thank you all for taking the time to respond.
__________________
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
crazyoldboatguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-07-2014, 15:33   #10
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,670
Re: Leading Main Halyard Below Deck

COBG:

If I understood your post correctly, you are planning to make both visual and bodily access to your booms almost impossible. Frankly, I think that is not a really sound idea. Your projected modifications will make your boat very difficult to sail.

I'm wondering if you wouldn't rather have a motorboat at this stage? I think that if you actualize your plans, that is what you will wind up with. All it would take is one little jam of something, and kablowie! you can't get to it to free it, let alone considerations of the sea state.

If you have lazy jacks, unless you lower them (involving a trip to the mast), you'll have to be able to see the luff of the main while you're raising it or it's going to get fouled.

I don't think the running the mainsheet below decks will be terribly practical, because how you seal things makes friction, too. The deck penetration would be the worst bit. You could mount a channel for it to keep people out of it below, and then where would you put the sheet winch?

Probably cheaper to forget masts & sails entirely, add ballast, and have a mobo.

A.
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-07-2014, 15:44   #11
Registered User
 
crazyoldboatguy's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chicago
Boat: Alden auxiliary ketch 48'
Posts: 857
Re: Leading Main Halyard Below Deck

You didn't understand my post correctly. I was not planning on running my mainsheet below decks, I was contemplating running the mainsail halyard internally to exit the mast in the main cabin. There would be no friction issues there as a result. As others noted, being able to see the sail as it is being lowered is the main impediment to limiting trouble. This was just an exercise in talking out loud to see how others would view my rather strange proposal.

As far as the access to the booms, etc, I am making provision for that in a variety of ways. I decided not to describe that since my post was limited to one issue, in order to minimize any confusion I may cause in my description. I enjoy figuring these kinds of things out. I have addressed many interesting challenges that way.

=== "I'm wondering if you wouldn't rather have a motorboat at this stage? ===

Perish the thought.
__________________
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
crazyoldboatguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-07-2014, 19:07   #12
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: We have a problem... A serious addiction issue.
Posts: 3,940
Re: Leading Main Halyard Below Deck

Actually running below deck lines isn't as crazy as it may seem at first. It is pretty standard on larger race boats to clean up the deck as much as possible, and reduce trip hazards when moving forward. The trick isn't to terminate them below deck, but to run them in conduit and have them exit just before the clutches. It may be difficult to rout as a refit, but it is perfectly reasonable way to run things.
__________________
Greg

- If animals weren't meant to be eaten then they wouldn't be made of food.
Stumble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-07-2014, 19:22   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Boston Area
Boat: Beneteau 423
Posts: 223
I've raced on boats with the main halyard exiting below deck. In those cases a snatch block was used to lead to one of the main winches. I don't think I would want it on a cruising boat but as you say routing around to get it to lead back to the cockpit is a pain too. You definitely want to be able to see the sail and mast when raising and lowering. Doubly so with lazy jacks.
__________________
hlev00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-07-2014, 19:30   #14
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Re: Leading Main Halyard Below Deck

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy View Post
<snip>

I plan on having a hard dodger coming off the pilot house leading aft that will cover the cockpit, provide mounting for solar panels and generally interfere with my access to both the main and mizzen boom.

<snip>

I am wanting to avoid having to go forward on the larger vessel (not getting any younger). I will have to secure new masts as the originals are wood, not in good shape, solid and HEAVY.

<snip>

That would mean the halyard could be controlled from below decks in all kinds of weather without having crew go forward. I haven't worked out all the issues but thought I would post here so as to provide some merriment from the august body here. Your thoughts and derisive laughter are appreciated!
I am attaching a phot of what I presume is your boat.

I am with stumble - the "cleanest" way to do it is to route in conduit through the pilot house.

But the biggest issue is trying to sail a big boat with a lot of sails as simply as possible with admitted diminishing strength and sprightliness.

My bothers boat was supposed to be a Gaff rigged Cutter Ketch (photo not my brother's boat BTW). PO removed the mizzen mast to expand the pilot house and it is now a cutter sloop? Anyway PO reports sailing performance is about the same. Sheets are run into the PH but not halyards.

The easy way to do this IMHO is to go in mast furling despite your aversion to it. Even if halyards are run below or into the PH, you still have the issues of tying off/bagging the sails.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	alden.jpg
Views:	106
Size:	45.7 KB
ID:	85030  
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-07-2014, 19:33   #15
Registered User
 
crazyoldboatguy's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chicago
Boat: Alden auxiliary ketch 48'
Posts: 857
Re: Leading Main Halyard Below Deck

Thanks for the posts. Not having been below decks on these large racers I wouldn't have thought they run the main halyard below decks. Makes sense. Successfully doing that on a cruiser involves issues that may not be easily addressed. But still possible. Limiting the turns would be hard. I could easily mount a winch somewhere even in the pilot house but allowing for room to swing the crank 360*. I am thinking of using portable drivers to power some of the winches but would want to have room for the crank in any event.

This is fun.
__________________

__________________
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
crazyoldboatguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
deck, halyard

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Leading a Double Life - Liveaboard/Cruiser Hudson Force Liveaboard's Forum 2 10-10-2010 09:04
Help with Leading Lines Aft, Pearson Triton mikeroddy Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 5 09-08-2010 10:48
Hull Leading Edge Calculator Multihull Sailboats 15 06-03-2009 16:15
Leading mainsheet to the helm Rich S/V Orion Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 0 25-07-2008 17:57



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:55.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.