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Old 15-07-2014, 19:46   #16
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Re: Leading Main Halyard Below Deck

On a bigger charter boat I occasionally skipper we lead the main halyard aft through a couple of snatch blocks to one of the electric primary winches. Works well and if you used one of those new textile rope clutches you could remotely lock it off at the mast easily enough. In all honesty given you are replacing the mast, some sort of inmast furling might make sense for you if you are keen to avoid leaving the cockpit.
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Old 15-07-2014, 20:34   #17
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Re: Leading Main Halyard Below Deck

Ex-Calif,

Wow, I wish that were my boat. I'd be much closer to being finished than I am now. Check out my profile page - I finally found some time after getting my new computer set up to get some photos over there. You will note the current status of my boat is nowhere near what you put in your post. However, the basic configuration appears to be similar enough for the discussion.

I am not so old now that I can't make my way around. But time is not on my side. I want to make the boat usable long into my dotage. I try to set up my boats so I can single hand them. Doing so on a larger vessel requires much thought. I will be pricing in-mast furling but will not likely get it. Added weight aloft and complexity involved runs counter to my desires. It comes across as a contradiction but then everything about boats is a compromise and a contradiction. The conduit idea has some merit. I will be working on deck layout and systems placement prior to the next push, coming up this fall. Now is the time to get this sorted out while I have a blank slate.

After sailing for 50 years, completely refitting a 50 year old plastic boat and being involved in the total (insane) reconstruction of the Alden auxiliary ketch I can say I can deal with the contradictions. Not too stupid, vain or blind to see where I could learn new things. Hence my coming here.

Thank you for taking the time to post. It helps much.
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Old 15-07-2014, 20:46   #18
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Re: Leading Main Halyard Below Deck

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy View Post
Ex-Calif,


I am not so old now that I can't make my way around. But time is not on my side. I want to make the boat usable long into my dotage. I try to set up my boats so I can single hand them.
I know you are open and will make the right decisions. Sounds like you got plenty of experience.

Just don't underestimate the utility of "off the shelf" solutions like in mast furling.

I have a friend with a 52 footer. He is very agile and healthy but everything is on the mast and largely manual. His teen is now in college and his boat goes out like once a year...

Depending on how far into "dotage" you want this to work will form a lot of your decisions...

Not for nothing but for me (into dotage) it would be a different boat or if this one, dump the mizzen mast, include furling main, have double furling headsails, electric winches etc. etc...

Of course budget is always a constraint...
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Old 15-07-2014, 20:56   #19
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Re: Leading Main Halyard Below Deck

Ex-Calif,

Off the shelf has its place. Very appealing. Everything is on the table and I have the time to consider those options.

Thank you again for taking the time.
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Old 15-07-2014, 22:01   #20
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Re: Leading Main Halyard Below Deck

Honestly I couldn't begin to design a system without some pictures of the current deck layout and the area between the mast and the bridge deck. But my guess is it wouldn't be all that hard to route. You may wind up with a few more turns than ideal, but that's pretty much true for all boats. Switch over to an electric winch and th little bit of extra friction won't be all that bad to deal with.


Below is a nice picture of the X-65 deck layout, and how they route the jib sheet below deck.
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Old 15-07-2014, 22:41   #21
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Re: Leading Main Halyard Below Deck

Look at the earlier pic Ex-Calif posted - it gives you a general idea of the layout of my vessel. It is a pilot house cutter ketch. Now look at the pics I put in my profile page. As you can see, I don't even have a deck yet.

All in the planning stage but I can tell you I am loath to have halyards and reefing lines crawling over my deck with turning and cheek blocks all over the place. The pilot house is the real challenge. I will not have openings facing forward to route these lines to the cockpit. The pilot house will be my navigation and communication station.
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Old 16-07-2014, 00:32   #22
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Re: Leading Main Halyard Below Deck

Very best and simplest is to have everything on the mast and boom. Departing from this adds complexity and expense. It creates a giant pile of line in the cockpit. And it transfers great loads which try to lift the cabin top or deck. With most/all lines led to cockpit, there are many more ways to snarl.

On TN I have mounted the hardware (2 winches plus rope clutches, turning blocks and line organizers) to allow everything to be led aft. But there are also winches on the mast and on the deck near the mast. I have misgivings on running everything aft.
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Old 16-07-2014, 07:09   #23
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Re: Leading Main Halyard Below Deck

I had a roller furling main on my pilot house. I doubt you'll notice the extra weight aloft. Don't forget the sail is tapered so the furled sail is heavier at the bottom than the top. When I sold my boat the buyers had never sailed a boat with a furler. He kept saying "just like pushing the easy button." With a big grin on his face.

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Old 16-07-2014, 08:30   #24
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Re: Leading Main Halyard Below Deck

You really may want to contact a deck engineer about this since you are building from scratch. There are a lot of ways to do this, and frankly a lot of it comes down to how much you are willing to spend.

If money is no object and you don't want anything lead back then an electric captive reel winch for each halyard is an option (but insanely expensive). The upside is you don't need to bring anything back but the solenoid wires.

Next option for me (and probably what I would do) is to build a raceway between the mast and the bridge deck. Dumping out just forward of a set of clutches and an electric winch. No mess, no fuss, and honestly while it's hard to explain, if you can find one to look at it really isn't that complicated. Basically you just build a dorado box that instead of moving air brings the lines back. Since it is built at the same time as the deck you can hide it in the natural turn of the deck pretty easily.
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Old 16-07-2014, 09:42   #25
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Re: Leading Main Halyard Below Deck

Stumble,

Thank you for the suggestion of a deck engineer. I have thought of that on and off especially when I get to thinking about the ketch rig. My experience is in much smaller boats and I am coming to the realization that it doesn't easily translate to the larger boat with the extra stick.

I will look around my neck of the woods to see if I can find one. If you have any suggestions I would be grateful.
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Old 16-07-2014, 12:28   #26
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Re: Leading Main Halyard Below Deck

Are you looking at someone to just do the deck layout, or engineer the rigging, and structure?

There are a number of people who I could recommend for the latter, no one specific for the former. But I could make some recomendations of where to start looking.
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Old 16-07-2014, 12:47   #27
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Re: Leading Main Halyard Below Deck

I found a number of folks who design rigs, etc but not ones that could assist w/deck layouts. I would be grateful for what you could suggest. Perhaps a talk with some of them might reveal some sources.

Thanks again.
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Old 16-07-2014, 15:43   #28
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Re: Leading Main Halyard Below Deck

For anything with rigging Brion Toss would be my first call. He can also likely help with deck layout or send you to the guy who will. He is a rigger not an engineer, but he is probably the best rigger out there.

Eric Sponberg would also be worth a call. He is primarily a mast engineer, but has done a lot of custom jobs.

The issue with deck layout is a weird one. Starting from scratch is likely harder than working from a given since the variables change. Do you go with a pedestal with everything run there to one winch (ala some large cruisers) inside the deckhouse. Or a more traditional port/starboard/halyard winch setup... To some extent the other design goals of the boat matter a lot. Like how much are you willing to sacrafice in the bridgedeck for sailing ability.

And while it looks like you are going to a solid bridgedeck, you may want to consider a convertible for when visibility is critical.
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Old 16-07-2014, 16:35   #29
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Re: Leading Main Halyard Below Deck

Thank you. Mr Sponberg is on my short list. I emailed him awhile ago about CF masts and he responded very quickly.

Yes, the deck layout is a challenging one. This is an old boat and, while I could match the original layout, I don't think that would serve me well. I bet between the folks you suggested and some local folks I know I can get the info I need.

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