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Old 29-04-2010, 07:42   #1
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Lazy Jack Alternative?

What is the alternative to using lazy jacks to control the main? I saw a post a while back that described a different way of doing it, using lines from the main to the boom line.
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Old 29-04-2010, 08:18   #2
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I believe you are thinking of the Dutchman system, which I will be installing on my rig shortly. A number of boats at my marina have it. Its nearly invisible, I've heard as good or better reports than I have from lazyjacks, and know a number of people who have switched FROM lazyjacks of various brands and installations and haven't looked back once.
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Old 29-04-2010, 15:48   #3
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Lazy jacks were invented when the booms and the sails extended aft of the stern, over the water. Now that rigs are taller and narrower, I think that lazy jacks are no longer necessary for "reasonably sized" sails, say boom length up to 15 feet.

More, they can be a nuisance when hoisting the mainsail if the boat isn't exactly head to wind. When dousing the sail, 2 sail ties are all that I need to keep it under control.

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Old 29-04-2010, 16:44   #4
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Having used both on different style boats and the Dutchman for extended period the lazy jacks win hands down. I would like to try the dutchman on a similar sized rig as the LJ's.
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Old 29-04-2010, 21:27   #5
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my formosa has a 20 ft boom--NEEDS lazy jacks---smaller boats do not require them. anywhere a sail interferes with the vision of the helm, there is a need to control that sail so as not to prevent helmsman from seeing what is there and where to go.....whatever way that is done is up to boat owner--i prefer lazy jacks to other methods as i was introduced to them at an early age.
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Old 29-04-2010, 21:43   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydra View Post
lazy jacks are no longer necessary

More, they can be a nuisance when hoisting the mainsail if the boat isn't exactly head to wind. When dousing the sail, 2 sail ties are all that I need to keep it under control.

Alain
Well, necessary- no. Handy, yes.

When hoisting, stow the Lazyjacks if they are a problem. The big advantage of Lazyjacks is when your dropping the main.

Dutchmen do leave you with an automaticlly flaked sail. With Lazyjacks you (I) have to go pretty things up.

If I'm sailing with the lazy jack deployed, I ease them so the don't interfere with sail shape.

A lot of people I see on the water with them really don't understand them. And I also see them badly installed. They are great and simple if you take the time to figure them out IMO.
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Old 29-04-2010, 22:40   #7
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I found both systems needed assistance that is what disappointed with the Dutchman system especially as fir all the extra bits and pieces plus maintenance it still did not work well. More comments would be appreciated? The boom did not have a bag like the LJ system did so maybe that was one reason?
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Old 29-04-2010, 23:08   #8
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I'm unfamiliar with the LJ system. It sounds like you're describing a "stack pack" or similar system. Basicaly the "bag" is an intregrated sail cover/Lazyjack type system that stays in place. But it's hard to really answer your question because there are no particulars as to why you were disapointed.

Since you have used both and nothing at all, I'd have to rely on the old "personal preference" line. But if I were standing on the dock looking at the systems you were not impressed with, I might see something that made using the systems less than optimal. Not knowing you, I dare not say-operator error.

When I took up downhill skying, it was miserable the first day. Really bad. But I knew that a lot of people loved it and I wanted to find out why. I had a week on the slopes to find out. It only took a couple of days to go from "miserable" to "great fun".

So I'd go back to my earlier comment and say, go back see if you really had the principle sorted out or not. Again, I dunno. I don't fel like I'm being much help.

I think sailing is a whole lot about opinion. I'm sure glad that my opinion is the right one.
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Old 29-04-2010, 23:08   #9
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A friend of mine has a dutchman on his Catalina 320. When it is set up properly (he had some issues after replacing the lines) it works pretty nicely. He does have to remember to set the lines tight before dropping it, we sail with them loose. Dropping means it comes down flaked well. The system was installed when he bought the boat new and the main is trained. I understand they don't convert older sails well.

When it isn't set up properly it becomes a real pain. Sail goes everywhere and we have had to rehoist to get things squared away.


If I was buying a new sail I might consider the system. This spring I am rebuilding my lazyjacks so I can stow them easier and make them contain the sail a wee bit better.
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Old 30-04-2010, 01:27   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minggat View Post
I'm unfamiliar with the LJ system. It sounds like you're describing a "stack pack" or similar system. Basicaly the "bag" is an intregrated sail cover/Lazyjack type system that stays in place. But it's hard to really answer your question because there are no particulars as to why you were disapointed.

Since you have used both and nothing at all, I'd have to rely on the old "personal preference" line. But if I were standing on the dock looking at the systems you were not impressed with, I might see something that made using the systems less than optimal. Not knowing you, I dare not say-operator error.

When I took up downhill skying, it was miserable the first day. Really bad. But I knew that a lot of people loved it and I wanted to find out why. I had a week on the slopes to find out. It only took a couple of days to go from "miserable" to "great fun".

So I'd go back to my earlier comment and say, go back see if you really had the principle sorted out or not. Again, I dunno. I don't fel like I'm being much help.

I think sailing is a whole lot about opinion. I'm sure glad that my opinion is the right one.
Sorry I might have confused you it did have lazy jacks the bag was for protection once dropped.
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Old 30-04-2010, 01:33   #11
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uhhh. Still confused.

The bag is not the sail cover? What is it protecting? Any pics?
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Old 30-04-2010, 08:57   #12
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We have a dual control line Dutchman system on our boat that we installed when we first bought her at the suggestion of our sailmaker. Our previous boat, a 1976 Cal 2-29 had "EZ-Jaks" that allowed one to deploy the lazy jacks when necessary and then retract them where they laid neatly along the boom and the sides of the mast. Having had both systems I would not choose the Dutchman system again. It is convenient to some extent but no better than the EZ-Jaks and the control lines are a problem if one wants to hoist a trysail. Ours can be lowered but then one is dealing with a pile of unruly monofiliment control lines on deck at a time when one doen't want to be screwing around unnecessarily.

FWIW...
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Old 30-04-2010, 09:08   #13
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don't know what the system is called. it looked like lazy jacks with a twist to me. The sail cover was attached to the underside of the boom and came up in a u shape on either side of the boom and had lines run from the boom back to the main, like lazy jacks would be, and then had a bit more bag that zipped up over the sail once it was flaked down in the u shape. It was pretty slick to my mind, but since I only saw it at the recent boat show I can't say how well it actually works, but I did see 3 similar systems, so it must not be too uncommon. These pics show one with what looks like boom furling and one with flaked. I want one myself!

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Old 30-04-2010, 09:34   #14
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Sara,
believe that's a stackpack. Looks just like the one I have on Enchantress except my cover is dark green. Cool the way you have the boat name on it -- shoulda thought of that
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Old 30-04-2010, 23:23   #15
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Stack pack, Lazy cradle, depends on who makes it. Mine was made by my friend at his canvas shop to my spec and design.

But unless there is some other animal out there, they all sit on top of the boom. There are battens that runs the length and are in pockets where the Lazy jacks are attached (so you can't see them in Sara's pic. The whole thing can be stowed and the sail cover rolled up & tied close to the boom.
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