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Old 31-10-2014, 12:00   #31
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Re: Kites, Parafoils and Parasails - after a Demasting?

Kite Yacht Rescue may give you a few more ideas.

KITE-YACHT-RESCUE
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Old 31-10-2014, 12:43   #32
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Re: Kites, Parafoils and Parasails - after a Demasting?

I think this is totally feasible, but it would take skill. I think you'd want to already be a kite surfer.

A standard parachute anchor, gennaker, etc. likely wouldn't work or wouldn't work for long. A kite surfing kite is powerful, controllable, and floats when it hits the water.

I don't see squalls as so much of a problem as you should be able to just put the kite back on the water and relaunch afterwards? I've only played with kites for a few hours, so I'm not sure. You probably wouldn't want to fly it at night in squally conditions.

You can go upwind and across the wind easily, but as other have pointed out, DDW requires constant figure 8 maneuvering which would be a lot of work, but certainly do-able.

I hope to have one on board eventually for actual kite surfing. I'd certainly use it in a dismasting situation, as well as to rip around in the dinghy.
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Old 31-10-2014, 12:47   #33
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Re: Kites, Parafoils and Parasails - after a Demasting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwyckham View Post
I hope to have one on board eventually for actual kite surfing. I'd certainly use it in a dismasting situation, as well as to rip around in the dinghy.
A Kite will be my new toy for our Cat dinghy. Should be entertaining....
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Old 31-10-2014, 19:22   #34
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Re: Kites, Parafoils and Parasails - after a Demasting?

I hate it when I am wrong, but I just noticed today on Sailing Anarchy that aparently the VOR boats are carrying kites in case of demasting. I haven't found any detain about what type of performance they expect out of them, or even that they have actively tested them. But aparently the safety guys at VOR have decided they are worth carrying aboard.

I am still hesitant about what type of speed you can expect out of something like is without actively working them, but again I really have no idea. I have never seen one, tried one, or even talked to anyone who has on a big boat.

http://www.asvperformance.com/blogs/...-racing-yachts

No price is listed, but they would probably be a good (thou biased) source.
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Old 31-10-2014, 19:46   #35
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Re: Kites, Parafoils and Parasails - after a Demasting?

not exactly a rippin' wake on the Volvo boat pictures...

How about going to the dump (in the Galapagos, I don't imagine they ship their trash to the mainland) or junkyard and scrounging a piece of pipe or something as a substitute mast...
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Old 01-11-2014, 06:41   #36
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Re: Kites, Parafoils and Parasails - after a Demasting?

In those pictures, there is a guy standing on deck harnessed into, and actively working, that kite. I don't suspect this will ever be a thing a cruiser will want to do. The boat itself looks like it is standing still. Having actually flown a 14sqm kitesurfing kite while sitting in a 12' inflatable (the kite in the picture looks like a 16-18sqm), there is not a lot of motive force to drive a boat.

I suspect that this "rescue" kite is designed to be actively worked in expected high winds, and not passively flown in tradewinds or below.

Also, if these kites hit the water and the boat drifts past them, they will be very difficult to relaunch - particularly if they land upside down. Not to mention the long spiderweb of 1mm spectra lines that will be tangled and coiled all over the place.

All in all, a typical cruising couple stands a very high chance of being injured trying to use something like this as emergency equipment.

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Old 01-11-2014, 06:51   #37
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Re: Kites, Parafoils and Parasails - after a Demasting?

They have automated Kite systems also. Those are the ones cruisers would end up using. They are programmed to do the figure eight, so they make a higher apparent wind and faster stronger pull.
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Old 01-11-2014, 07:14   #38
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Re: Kites, Parafoils and Parasails - after a Demasting?

I'm just not seeing a cruising boat carrying around a large hydraulic ram system and sheave device, providing a sufficient deck space and mounting point for it, storing it, and feeding it power.

Also, it seems like the launching of these kites is overlooked. Have you ever launched one? You cannot just throw it up in the air and reel it out like a parachute. They must be laid out with the lines untangled and resting on the surface of the water in a manner that the control lines can pull them into the wind to launch. A boat drifting backwards in rougher seas has no chance of launching one.

We are talking about a typical cruising couple in a typical cruising boat who have just gone through a dismasting event, right?

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Old 01-11-2014, 07:45   #39
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Re: Kites, Parafoils and Parasails - after a Demasting?

For a dis-masting event. You would want to use a small stowaway Kite that has an inflatable leading edge, so it floats for launch. The Spectra line also floats.

Would it suck having to actively maintain it's flight, yes, but looking at the alternatives it may bring you in range of a shipping lane to better you chances of a rescue.
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Old 01-11-2014, 08:09   #40
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Re: Kites, Parafoils and Parasails - after a Demasting?

Have you ever flown a kite-board style kite? This is an important question to answer.

Yes, they all float because of the bladders, and the line floats also, but that is completely beside the point I was making. They are an actively launched kite that requires a certain attitude to the wind to get up. This attitude will be very difficult to achieve in a boat drifting downwind in rougher seas. The lines twist and tangle and must be free and taught before launching. If the kite is upside down on the water (which is very easy to achieve), it must be carefully goosed around and back into the right side up position before launch.

Then there is the motive force available. Most kiteboarders have a difficult time in winds <15kts keeping all but very large kites flying enough to get a 170lb person moving on a floating board that planes over the water. And then they are working that kite to keep the force going.

Like I mentioned, I have flown a 14sqm kite on a 12' inflatable. Without 20kts of wind, the boat was barely moving. I don't see anything except a very large kite, or an actively managed kite (by someone with skills using it) moving a typical cruising boat anywhere.

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Old 01-11-2014, 08:34   #41
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Re: Kites, Parafoils and Parasails - after a Demasting?

I agree that you would have to know what your doing. Most would not know how to jury rig a sail on a dis-masted boat to make it move, so a Kite would be no different.

You would need some prior training or a real can do mentality to make either of these move your boat.
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Old 01-11-2014, 08:34   #42
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Re: Kites, Parafoils and Parasails - after a Demasting?

Would a helium balloon give enough lift to the "head" of a small lightweight asymmetrical sail so a mast was not required to launch it and keep it flying? Wouldn't take up much space until needed. There is quite a bit of helium in those party tanks at Wal-Mart although they are steel and would rust out in about a month. But an aluminum high pressure canister can hold quite a bit.
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Old 01-11-2014, 09:39   #43
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Re: Kites, Parafoils and Parasails - after a Demasting?

Jerry-rigging a sail would only require a bit of common thinking and then mostly passivity. Launching and controlling a kite would require many hours of prior practice and then constant active handling. And quite a bit of luck with environmental conditions.

Then there is that motive force thingy that no one seems to want to address. Do you have an estimate on how big a kite would be needed to be at all useful on, say, a 15 ton cruising boat in 10-15kt winds?

A kite like shown is very different, indeed.

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Old 01-11-2014, 09:41   #44
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Re: Kites, Parafoils and Parasails - after a Demasting?

I can't see a balloon holding up an assym head at all. The wind would simply blow it down and off and dump it.

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Old 01-11-2014, 10:21   #45
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Re: Kites, Parafoils and Parasails - after a Demasting?

Couldn't a kite be designed to not require much movement, but rather just sit there and pull? It seems to me that is what regular kids kites do. I know this sounds silly, but how about a regular kite only larger- like a box or similar- that would just sit there and pull. The only other requirement would be a way to depower the kite when the wind got too much, maybe a second string (could also act as a tail) to pull on when you want the kite to collapse.
Nobody has mentioned the utility of a kite for rescue. I thing an orange thing hanging 300 feet in the air would be a good thing.
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