Kites, Parafoils and Parasails - after a Demasting?

[Snowpetrel]

I think a simple kitset jury rig might be cheaper at the moment. Size it for your storn jib and trysail. Stow the parts below in nesting 2 or 3 meter lengths. Also use them as beaching legs so you can justify lugging them around.

Must admit that those kites look really cool, id love to play with one, but it would be hard work keeping one up in shifty conditions. And a downed kite in a squall would be "fun" to drag out of the water.

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[barnakiel]

You can grab a pair of s/h windsurfer masts and sails for next to nothing and set them up as emergency within minutes.

Less hassle, less cost, more effect.

b.

[estarzinger]

There are somewhat different scenarios here:

1. If you are near enough somewhere you could motor in and then could get a kite flown in, but not a whole rig (without a ton of difficulty). This was the case in the specific situation I was dealing with.

2. If you are well out to sea and have to deal with it with only what's on board.

It sounds like answer for 2 is not a kite nor anything "kite like", but more conventional jerry rig. Although in the cat case I was dealing with they really had essentially nothing left on deck to set up - whole rig over the side and no pole.

But what I was originally asking about was scenario 1 - is there something kite like you could fit in a reasonable size box, fly it in, and then a couple could use it to sail 3000 in the trades, squalls and calms and all? Or would it just not really work 'in the real world"?

[MarkJ]

Who is going to provide this service?
Bombing runs are pretty specialised operations. Chucking a bag out of a Cessna will land in yonderville... No where near the boat.

And how many dismastings this year have led to abandoning ship? Very few. So the Coast guard would have to have supply of expensive kites for an extremely infrequent occurrence.

[jannw]

it is possible: http://www.sail-world.com/photos/Alt_KiteShip.jpg

[colemj]

Look closer, that requires a mast.

Mark

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Bombing runs are pretty specialised operations.

In the case I was dealing with we were talking about just having the boat motoring a couple hundred miles to an airport (in the Galapagos) and get it delivered as luggage.

But yours in an interesting thought fro other situations. Many rescue services have C130's, which can go a long way out, and which regularly drop both extra life rafts and pumps. I would not expect them to 'stock' kites, but if the shore team/family provided one I suspect they could usually be talked into dropping it. I don't know what their typical bombing accuracy is, but it can't be too bad.

But I worry they (the kites) would be just too difficult/impractical. It sounds like they would be find in steady wind, but I think we rarely have steady winds during a passage - squalls many night and occasional dead calms seems more typical.

[estarzinger]

I just noticed this

ASV Performance kites powers the Volvo65 ocean racing yachts. | ASV Performance

Exactly what I was wondering about as the "demanding plan" for this Volvo race

[carstenb]

Evans

Why couldn't you use a gennaker? I know normally it needs a mast, but suppose you unhook the tack, lay it sideways and attach the clew with a very long line to the stern of the boat, The tack and the end that normalyl goes up the mast are attached with, again very long lines, to say, your midship cleats (or run them back to your winches - now you can control it somewhat)

I see two issues
1- launching the damn thing - it would require heading DDW, then getting the clew end up a little bit and slowly releasing it while holding onto the sides of the genny, and letting them release as the "kite" takes off (not easy, but I suppose it could be done)

2- Control - If rigged on winches- you should actually be able to spill wind (albeit slowly)

Taking it down would require hauling down on the clew (attached to your stern and thereafter via block to a winch) until the sail collapsed (of course it might end up just reversing itself, bottoms up)

Necessity is the mother of all invention, but I think this would be a fair weather solution - not sure I would want to try this in a heavy wind or with a shorthanded crew

If you decide to try - take lots of pics

But the above solution would not require carrying anything extra except maybe some very long lines.

[estarzinger]

^^ I don't know, would a sideways gennaker develop enough lift to fly off the deck without a mast/halyard? It would be nice to know, because you are right it is a 'better" "backup" solution, as it requires no specific dedicated gear.

These kites are specifically designed/shaped to develop lift in order to fly off the deck/ground.

[Cotemar]

Sailing with a Kiteboat is quite easy to learn with small Kites. If experienced as a team you can push it to its limits, extremes, amazing speeds of 21 knots, upwind and downwind.

KiteTender 400 Dinghy Spec’s

•length 440 cm (13 feet)
•width 132 cm (4 feet 3 inchs)
•weight 75 Kg (165 lbs)
•maximum 2 persons

Kitetender(TM) Kite Sailing Monohull

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

^^ I don't know, would a sideways gennaker develop enough lift to fly off the deck without a mast/halyard? It would be nice to know, because you are right it is a 'better" "backup" solution, as it requires no specific dedicated gear.

These kites are specifically designed/shaped to develop lift in order to fly off the deck/ground.

If you had a fairly long boathook you could get the top about 9 10 feet up over deck (15-16 over the water).

Easy enough to try, although I suspect the really difficult part is holding and feeding out the gennaker slowly enough to let the thing fly.

Probably would require say 4 man crew? One on the stern line, one each on the tack and clew and one (poor sod) holding the sail trying to feed slowly as it goes up.

If I were going to try this, I'd see if I could talk a sailmaker into lending me an old (and small) gennaker.

Although if a genny would work - so should a spinnaker. Rig it as normal with the mast end tied to the stern and the clewes tied to each their own winch. Launch the top as high as you can, let the spinnaker bellow out in front of the boat and use the stern line to help get the thing flying high.

I don't have the resources to test this - if you do please post a blow by blow giving us the good, bad and ugly of doing this.

I suppose if you're stuck out in the middle of nowhere - this would be worth trying. And might actually be a good thing if someone tried it and could detail the problems and how to solve them

[s/v Beth]

What if you were to get a smaller kite- one mass produced for the kite surfer- and just try it out on your dingy? Once you were experienced, then I would see if I could sail it from my cruiser. Then buy a bigger kite...
You would always be able to use it for kite surfing, or at least getting to shore fast on your dingy. And it would also back up as propulsion and signal for your life raft, if it ever came to that.

[Stumble]

As I understand it (and I claim no real knowledge) the traction kites don't generate a lot of power unless they are actively worked in a figure eight pattern. For daysailing it sounds like it could work, but on a passage i have my doubts.

Assuming your situation, and since we are only talking about going downwind... What about having a square sail made. Spinnaker cloth, bottom corners held by spinnaker twings, and the top held aloft by pretty much anything. My first thought was twin boat hooks, but if you are close to a marine, then some 2x4's. It wouldn't be pretty, and certainly wouldn't get you upwind, but it should give you 2-3kn without having to try and fly a kite.

[colemj]

Kite surfing kites do not work downwind. They also need to be actively worked like Stumble mentions.

Mark