Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-11-2010, 17:14   #1
Registered User
 
jdeatsch's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Southbound, NY
Boat: TBD
Posts: 20
Keel-Stepped vs Deck-Stepped . . .

Good day folks and be gentle with the new guy...

Old sailor for many years past though mostly in smaller <26' craft. I have been reading my a$$ off on this fine site as you might imagine.

It's time to consider taking the plunge (sorry) and going for the 32-38 foot cruising vessel (sail of course).

I've noticed some are deck stepped masts. This seems absurd to me, is that even a reasonable idea? I've not even considered a NON-keel stepped mast, why would I?

I have noticed in a LOT of photographs that there appear to be a piece of 'pipe' that runs from cabin ceiling to the cabin sole. Is THAT the 'bracing' for the deck stepped mast in an attempt to make it sound?

OR, on the other hand, would I be completely out to lunch here?

As you might imagine, I shall appreciate any and all thoughts, opinions, credentials, and well, you get the idea.

Jim
jdeatsch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2010, 17:29   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 30,561
Images: 2
pirate

In my little 21ftr there's no 'pole' supporting the mast in the cabin.. it relies on the built in brace in the cabin roof.. older models such as Westerly used the saloon/head bulkhead as a support...
The modern larger boats with that bit more space and deck stepped mast do have a pole running from the base of the mast step to the keel.... step and pole are bolted together so when the mast needs to be lifted/lowered its a lot simpler than the keel step version.... but just as good tho...
Oh... plus no water running down the mast into the boat
__________________

It was a dark and stormy night and the captain of the ship said.. "Hey Jim, spin us a yarn." and the yarn began like this.. "It was a dark and stormy night.."
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2010, 17:30   #3
Registered User
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Philippines in the winters
Boat: It’s in French Polynesia now
Posts: 11,368
Images: 122
There are advantages and disadvantages to both set-ups.

Go to the search and type in stepped mast. This subject has been on here may times, to length.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
The measure of a man is how he navigates to a proper shore in the midst of a storm!
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2010, 17:43   #4
Registered User
 
S/V Illusion's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FLORIDA
Boat: Alden 50, Sarasota, Florida
Posts: 3,464
Many high-end (read very expensive) boats have deck stepped masts. It all depends on design so don't make any rash judgments as they are usually wrong. There are far more important considerations to purchasing a boat than the mast step/keel step type.
S/V Illusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2010, 17:43   #5
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Endeavour 42CC
Posts: 1,182
Is anybody building a keel stepped boat any more?
gettinthere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2010, 17:55   #6
Registered User
 
Vasco's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toronto
Boat: CS36Merlin, "La Belle Aurore"
Posts: 7,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by gettinthere View Post
Is anybody building a keel stepped boat any more?
Yes, Beneteau for one.
__________________
Rick I
Toronto in summer, Bahamas in winter.
Vasco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2010, 19:26   #7
Registered User
 
NotQuiteLost's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Paradise (better known to most people as: Philippines)
Boat: 65' Custom Steel Ketch
Posts: 322
Images: 4
Have often wondered why steel boats especially don't use deck-stepped masts exclusively. The supporting frames wouldn't be that expensive, compared to the extra length of mast.

Have also wondered why Cor-Ten steel isn't used for masts on boats. Is it simply unavailable in oblong tube form?
NotQuiteLost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2010, 19:34   #8
Marine Service Provider
 
Ben M-P's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Southern California
Boat: Fareast, Mariner 40'
Posts: 177
One advantage a a deck stepped mast (in theory anyway) is if you get dismasted in a knock-down you are less likely to loose your deck/house.
__________________
Godspeed, as you travel the wave-road.
https://goingafloat.blogspot.com/
Ben M-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2010, 19:42   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,959
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotQuiteLost View Post
Have also wondered why Cor-Ten steel isn't used for masts on boats. Is it simply unavailable in oblong tube form?
Same reason it is not used to build aircraft: weight/strength
daddle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2010, 20:22   #10
RTB
Registered User
 
RTB's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Home port Kemah, TX Currently in Brunswick Georgia
Boat: Hunter 36
Posts: 1,524
Images: 2
I just did the Harvest moon Regatta on a Pacific Seacraft 37 (deck stepped btw) and we had some near gale force winds heading down the coast. Here is a boat that had a problem with a keel stepped mast - Massive mast failure in Galveston to Port Aransas Race | North American Sailor

Not sure if it has been determined what the actual cause for the failure was, but it sure is ugly!

I can't comment on which is best, if one is or not, but your standing rigging is your friend. Oh, and the compression post if deck stepped.

Aren't most catamarans deck stepped?
RTB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2010, 20:59   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cruising NC, FL, Bahamas, TCI & VIs
Boat: 1964 Pearson Ariel 'Faith' / Pearson 424, sv Emerald Tide
Posts: 1,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
There are advantages and disadvantages to both set-ups.

Go to the search and type in stepped mast. This subject has been on here may times, to length.
Absolutely. Many fine ships have one of the other... every boat, and every system on a boat reflects a series of compromises... best to look for the 'system' (entire package) that works best for you.
s/v 'Faith' is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2010, 21:12   #12
Moderator Emeritus
 
roverhi's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1976 Sabre 28-2
Posts: 7,505
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
A keel stepped mast can use thinner wall, smaller dimension, lighter tubing specs and/or narrower shroud angles. Primarily a concern for racing types. A deck stepped mast is theoretically stronger because it is supported at the keel step and deck partners as well as the lower and cap shrouds. Not really a factor in a cruising boat, however.

One thing I really don't like about keel stepped masts is the amount of water that gets below from the stick. Have only owned one keel stepped mast and never again.
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2010, 21:15   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bellingham WA
Boat: 17' faering Ironblood, building 34' schooner Javelin
Posts: 305
I have sailed off shore in both types [deck and keel stepped]. Like many things in boats, a lot of what is there in your boat depends on what you like and what makes you warm and fuzzy. My boats have all been keel stepped [and no, there was never water running down the mast into the boat because the making of mast collars/coats is gut simple]. Before I started building again, I looked at a lot of boats, considering buying because many were relatively cheap. Deck stepped with good support and rigging did not deter me, and I am a raging traditionalist.
MichaelC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2010, 22:33   #14
Registered User
 
ozskipper's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NSW Australia
Boat: Traditional 30
Posts: 1,980
The compression post takes the load of the deck stepped mast. All the compression loads are still transferred to the keel. So yes its needed. And it works- hence most modern boats are now designed this way.


IMHO I dont see the need for a keel stepped mast at all. They leak water either internally or through the boot and are an extra cost at purchase and a hassle when lifting the mast off for service.

Some race boats used to use Keel stepped with hydrolics attached to promote bend and rig tension. (too much hassle for not enough gain for a cruiser though) In a cruising boat I see no reason at all to have a keel stepped mast. A smaller unobtrusive stainless pipe looks a lot better than an aluminium spar cutting the view of the cabin in half.

Cheers
Oz
ozskipper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-11-2010, 00:08   #15
Registered User
 
NotQuiteLost's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Paradise (better known to most people as: Philippines)
Boat: 65' Custom Steel Ketch
Posts: 322
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by daddle View Post
Same reason it is not used to build aircraft: weight/strength
But on larger, heavier cruising boat weight aloft can be a plus for stability. Also, there's no fatigue in steel like there is in aluminum, meaning if it was kept dry and electrically insulated, a cor-ten mast could theoretically be permanent(?). Aluminum is the most balanced material for ease of use, available expertise and familiarity and comfort, nobody would argue otherwise. But there seems to be an opening for corrosion-resistant steel in a limited segment of the marketplace (larger, heavier boats). Just seems that way to me. And with industries like yachting, things are awfully slow to change.
NotQuiteLost is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aluminum Keel-Stepped Mast to Iron Keel - Grounded ? endoftheroad Construction, Maintenance & Refit 11 30-09-2010 14:47
Deck-Stepped Mast Shifted Forward chaaaaaaaz Construction, Maintenance & Refit 2 22-05-2010 18:25
Deck-Stepped Mast sandycohen Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 14 24-12-2009 17:13
Water in a deck stepped Mast... drh1965 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 15 14-09-2007 21:05
What is the Advantage of a Keel Stepped Mast? 44'cruisingcat Monohull Sailboats 44 01-12-2006 18:18

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:42.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.