Jordan Series Drogue Cone Shape?

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

What I get from the various negative posts is you cannot make your own JSD and expect the panels/cones to last except in a placid sea, when you do not need it. I suspect the reality is different, and you can, even if it is one heck of a project with obstacles to be overcome and experiences shared. Maybe UV cured adhesive applied after sewing? How about sewing through something like Gorilla Tape or...? These are not answers, just questions or ideas. For those, such as myself, lacking in fine motor skills, eBay or direct purchase from a quality source might be the way to go, but I have to admit I sometimes even try to improve on quality products.

My guess is that due to the adhesive, sewing through Gorilla Tape will be akin to doing the same to sails glued with Contact Cement. It'll gum the f**k out of the needle, leading to it's rapid demise. As sewing needles can get awfully damn hot at times. Plus Gorilla Tape is just a name brand Duct Tape, which, is easily tearable by hand. Unlike most sailcloth.

There are some light weight, & or, low strength adhesives that you can use to lock 2 panels to be sewed together, in proper alignment with one another. But even using them in any quantity can gum up a needle, the thread, or even the machine too. Depends on what you're using for glue, as well as thread, & the heat loadings on things.

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

My guess is that due to the adhesive, sewing through Gorilla Tape will be akin to doing the same to sails glued with Contact Cement. It'll gum the f**k out of the needle, leading to it's rapid demise. As sewing needles can get awfully damn hot at times. Plus Gorilla Tape is just a name brand Duct Tape, which, is easily tearable by hand. Unlike most sailcloth.

There are some light weight, & or, low strength adhesives that you can use to lock 2 panels to be sewed together, in proper alignment with one another. But even using them in any quantity can gum up a needle, the thread, or even the machine too. Depends on what you're using for glue, as well as thread, & the heat loadings on things.

No argument from me about the result, although the Gorilla tape material and adhesive is, I believe, capable beyond duct tape, even the Mil spec stuff. Any thoughts about UV cured adhesive applied post sewing to needlework as a seam seal and thread protectant?

[YPSILANTI]

Greetings and thanks for the replies. Mikereed, you have assisted with exactly what I required. I appreciate the information immensely. I plotted a template as per your specs provided and its perfect. I'm puzzled why these templates are not on the main articles on the JSD. Its almost impossible to format the template of the arc curves and perimeter of the arc without the information that you provided. You comments on integrity has also prompted me to make them from a second mainsail that I have which will make them stronger. Much appreciated.

[JPA Cate]

Ypsilanti,

Yes, you do have to separate the wheat from the chaff. But, do consider reinforcing the hems and seams.

I'm still in the thinking stages of this, having quickly replaced our nylon cones with pvc, for the dinghy drogue. But now, I am wondering about using ptfe thread with the nylon cones, for a JSD, and, of course, there will be little UV involved, but perhaps its properties might be better suited to the application?????

Any guesses out there, please?

Another issue I am thinking about is the weight of the fabric for the cones. Obviously, 6 oz. will weigh more than the 3/4 oz., but it will also take up more space, in whatever container you make to deploy it.

Maybe I missed it, but why are they now talking 6 oz. ripstop? That would be pretty strong. Think about 1-1/2 oz. storm chutes. Why are we doing this? Is there a better way?

Thanks,

Ann

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

No argument from me about the result, although the Gorilla tape material and adhesive is, I believe, capable beyond duct tape, even the Mil spec stuff. Any thoughts about UV cured adhesive applied post sewing to needlework as a seam seal and thread protectant?

On the UV setting adhesive, I can't comment. Though, knock on wood, the UV set epoxy filling in my tooth seems to have held up well.

As to Gorilla Tape, I'm less than impressed. I have 2 different batches of military duct tape & both are much, much stronger, & stick significantly better than Gorilla Tape. And one of those mil spec rolls is 20yrs old.

I'm thinking Gorilla is using the name to boost sales, not their product quality. And even on their website it states that the stuff tears by hand, so how would that be assistive in this application? Try tearing sailcloth by hand. Ain't gonna happen. Well, maybe old, UV degraded 0.5oz spinnaker cloth. But that's about it.

[YPSILANTI]

Good advice Ann. I certainly will reinforce both the leading and trailing edges. I'm determined to make my Drogue "bullet proof." How many drogues do you use for your tender, or how many would you suggest for a 4.5 meter ( 15 ft ) inflatable with a 20HP ?

Thanks to all for the incredibly helpful posts. This forum is truly amazing.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by YPSILANTI

Good advice Ann. I certainly will reinforce both the leading and trailing edges. I'm determined to make my Drogue "bullet proof." How many drogues do you use for your tender, or how many would you suggest for a 4.5 meter ( 15 ft ) inflatable with a 20HP ?

Thanks to all for the incredibly helpful posts. This forum is truly amazing.

I used a single cone for my 10' dory, or my 10' Boston Whaler (no OB) depending on which was in use at the time, when a large bucket proved to be a bit much. The cone had a 12" mouth, a 4" annulus, & was about 18" long. Made out of a vinyl or pvc impregnated fabric.

The fabric's having a slick surface is key, as you'll be fighting to keep marine growth off of it. So the smooth fabric makes this so that only a sponge is required, as long as it's only in the water for a few days at a stretch.


Edit: Lines, & a system that'll prevent things from accidentally getting fouled in the ship's prop if you forget it's back there, are important too.

[YPSILANTI]

LOL uncivilized. . Ive met some folk who I suspect also have a 4 in annulus.
Thanks for the info.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Note that one important feature on the dinghy drogue was a flexible, fixed ring at the cone's entrance which kept it open continually, so that there was always plenty of drage being generated.

As to how much drag you need for a specific dink, it'll be based on the dink's weight, wind & water drag, & wind strengths, & water/current speeds in the area. But know that you can always add or remove cones to tune it. As well as the fact that a shorter tail behind the dink would be preferred, as it'll be less likely to get snagged by another vessel, or on the sea floor. Either of which could be Bad Juju.

[JPA Cate]

Ypsilanti,

Our dinghy drogue has 2 pvc fabric cones (herculite, with a dacron scrim). They are the same size as the JSD cones. The line they are into was an old 3/4" dock line. Weight aft is some old 3/8" chain, bridle to stern cleats of RIB. The whole deal is too short to foul the ships prop, and it sinks anyway. Jim has it arranged so that he can deploy the drogue from the big boat, once set up. Using it, towing the dinghy, one loses maybe a knot, maybe more in lighter airs, but it really comes into its own when we are going fast downwind, as the dinghy won't overtake and surf into the ship.

Ann

[thinwater]

FWIW, I only suggested polyurethane as a retrofit for cones made of 1.5 ounce fabric, to reduce fraying on the leading edge. No other use. I would not sew through it or use it as a structural adhesive in this severe a flexing application.

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Ypsilanti,

Our dinghy drogue has 2 pvc fabric cones (herculite, with a dacron scrim). They are the same size as the JSD cones. The line they are into was an old 3/4" dock line. Weight aft is some old 3/8" chain, bridle to stern cleats of RIB. The whole deal is too short to foul the ships prop, and it sinks anyway. Jim has it arranged so that he can deploy the drogue from the big boat, once set up. Using it, towing the dinghy, one loses maybe a knot, maybe more in lighter airs, but it really comes into its own when we are going fast downwind, as the dinghy won't overtake and surf into the ship.

Ann

Never thought of anything so simple and effective when towing a dinghy. It is a keeper idea. Thanks.