Jedi hi-tech halyards v2

[barnakiel]

Sweet bananas. I like your new halyards.

Should such a light modern halyard escape your hold in high winds - is it then more difficult to retrieve than a heavy wire halyard?

Our boat is very small but I did spend some time chasing our main halyard blowing high and free in that trade wind anchorage. Operator's error ;-(

b.

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Sweet bananas. I like your new halyards.

Should such a light modern halyard escape your hold in high winds - is it then more difficult to retrieve than a heavy wire halyard?

Our boat is very small but I did spend some time chasing our main halyard blowing high and free in that trade wind anchorage. Operator's error ;-(

b.

I guess you could tie a weight to the tail....

Last week I had to roll my cat over on it's side because the trapeze line got caught by the breeze and wouldn't float down. 7/64" dyneema tends to go flying at about 12kn of breeze, I don't have wind speeds yet for larger sizes.

[s/v Jedi]

Today I made the first double-braid halyard. This is Samson XLS Yacht Braid 7/16". Only 5,800lb but more than enough for topping lift, bosuns chair and even backup halyard in all but heavy weather.

There is a long thread about splicing double braids and the consensus there was that the Samson splice is the best... so a Sampson splice it is:


The tools used are all there:

Selma fids: the rope is 7/16" which is 11mm but Selma fids only come in 10mm and 13mm choices. When I measured the 10mm I expected 21x diameter so 210mm but it was 230mm which is only 5mm short of a 7/16" fid. So I used the 10mm fid and just added the 5mm where appropriate. There was no problem at all with the fid, except it's impossible to splice the core back in like somebody earlier in the thread reported. This is where I used the next item:

D-Splicer: the medium D-splicer is the right size for this. It was easy to pull the core through the cover+core section which is that tight part of the splice. I didn't need a soft fid.

Scissors: these are my new "kevlar scissors" and they are the bees knees for clipping high tech fibers like Dyneema. The impact from these is huge; a game changer. They are $28 but well worth it: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Awl: this is a Sailrite awl and it is awlful :-) It has corroded. I will have to find a couple of good stainless steel ones.

The part of the splice where you have to milk the cover over the splice in the end was easy enough that I didn't need a mallet nor a winch. Just some pulling and milking while my wife held the butterfly knot was enough. She didn't like me yanking the line to equalize cover and core much so I'll use a cleat or winch next time :-)

I finished with the Samson locking stitches for which I used a #4 whipping twine.

For SWL: the length of the core that I cut off was exactly 1 fid length.

[gjorgensen]

2 quick points: First, my experience with main & jib halyards is that creep with spectra isn't that big of a deal. It will set in during the first few minutes after hoisting, but if you snug up again from there the creep is really not much of a factor.

Second, while we've never had chafe problems with bare spectra, for our roller furling jib halyard we added a spectra skin over the area that will ride on the halyard sheave. New England Ropes DCS is what we've used and is perfect for this.

[s/v Jedi]

On the other end of the halyard I put a Flemish Eye splice. I could not find any correct video on Youtube for this so I decided to create a blog post for this splice:

Flemish Eye Splice in a polyester double braid line. - s/v Jedi

[Tayana42]

Thanks Jedi, I just ordered some warp speed and this will help me finish it.

[Stumble]

It's also called a reeving eye splice btw...

https://www.jamestowndistributors.co...Cspan%20class=

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Selma fids: the rope is 7/16" which is 11mm but Selma fids only come in 10mm and 13mm choices. When I measured the 10mm I expected 21x diameter so 210mm but it was 230mm which is only 5mm short of a 7/16" fid. So I used the 10mm fid and just added the 5mm where appropriate.

1 fid length can be taken as 21 x rope diameter. There is no problem going up to 24 x, which is what Brion Toss suggests. Using this conversion makes it easier than fudging the lengths.

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Scissors: these are my new "kevlar scissors" and they are the bees knees for clipping high tech fibers like Dyneema. The impact from these is huge; a game changer. They are $28 but well worth it: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Dockhead suggested I buy some scissors and so this is on my list. These from Amazon seem a fair bit cheaper than the D scissors, so thanks for the link.

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The part of the splice where you have to milk the cover over the splice in the end was easy enough that I didn't need a mallet nor a winch. Just some pulling and milking while my wife held the butterfly knot was enough. She didn't like me yanking the line to equalize cover and core much so I'll use a cleat or winch next time :-)

I finished with the Samson locking stitches for which I used a #4 whipping twine.

For SWL: the length of the core that I cut off was exactly 1 fid length.

LOL! For some reason my husband grizzled as well when I tried yanking to help the cover slide over in the final stages . I have no strong point in the apartment so he will need to toughen up .

Jedi, did you note how much longer the core was after the intitial pulling of core and milking of cover to equalise the core and cover? This is hugely line dependent (and also dependent of how much effort the user puts into the milking). I don't have access to many types of double braid poly, so it would be interesting to know.

SWL

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

1 fid length can be taken as 21 x rope diameter. There is no problem going up to 24 x, which is what Brion Toss suggests. Using this conversion makes it easier than fudging the lengths.




Dockhead suggested I buy some scissors and so this is on my list. These from Amazon seem a fair bit cheaper than the D scissors, so thanks for the link.




LOL! For some reason my husband grizzled as well when I tried yanking to help the cover slide over in the final stages . I have no strong point in the apartment so he will need to toughen up .

Jedi, did you note how much longer the core was after the intitial pulling of core and milking of cover to equalise the core and cover? This is hugely line dependent (and also dependent of how much effort the user puts into the milking). I don't have access to many types of double braid poly, so it would be interesting to know.

SWL

After equalizing core and cover, the core was about 1" or just under 1", longer. I milk until it has the same feel as it is how the rope comes, not tighter

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

After equalizing core and cover, the core was about 1" or just under 1", longer. I milk until it has the same feel as it is how the rope comes, not tighter

Thanks for the info. Some videos I have seen end up with much more (from memory New England's video showed a huge disparity after milking).
I presume you tied your securing knot 5 fids from the extraction point, as recommended? So the 1 inch disparity was over that distance? I think that to feel exactly the same as "the rope comes", the disparity would be zero though , so I would be vigorous enough to try and achieve that.

One thing I personally think would improve Samson's technique a little would be to shorten the distance between the extraction point of the core and the securing knot, so that the core/cover relationship is disrupted as little as possible. It does make the splice a little more difficult to bring home, but not excessively so. I have been playing and 3 fid lengths is enough for the core to be pulled out sufficiently and the splice to still be completed.

SWL

[UNCIVILIZED]

A tip on halyards, halyard tension, & stretch, for the non racing-educated crowd out there. Put a witness mark on the halyard with a magic marker, & a grid scale on the deck or spar with same. That, or buy a stick on grid scale like this one Adhesive Trim Scale 0 - 10, 10-3/4 | APS
So that when you hoist your sails, you can exactly, & repeatedly, pre-adjust your halyards for the conditions of the moment, via lining up the halyard’s witness mark with a certain point on the grid reference.

Such grids are also quite useful for measuring how much your halyards may or may not either be stretching under load, or slipping in your clutches. And if you’re precise about how you do it, you can use the above technique to measure line stretch in an old halyard as compared to a new one. Thus giving you an idea as to how worn out a line is, due to the break down of it’s fibers making it stretchier as compared to new.
Plus, your halyards are stretching too much when the breeze builds, you’ll know that it’s time to either replace them, & or, swap them out for a higher modulus, or larger sized line.

[s/v Jedi]

Uncivilized, can you tell us about the coatings you referred to? What kinds, where to buy, how expensive, how to apply, your review of them etc.?

[SVNeko]

Originally Posted by sea-bee

I am so envious of the beautiful work that is being shown on these threads lately. I have bought a set of fids and have spent hours trying to follow the instructions for a simple eye splice but just simply can not get a big enough fid down the cover to be able to feed the core through. I have tried it with 6, 8 and 10mm braided rope, and have the same problem with all of these. Any suggestions about how to get started?

use new, unused rope

[SVNeko]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

1/4" is too thin for my rope clutches, plus Dyneema is very slippery. For this reason I am adding a 3/8" polyester sleeve for the standing part from the rope clutch to the end

Curious what you do for the portion of halyard at the clutch when you reef, and if it is a cover how you ensure that it won't snag when going through blocks, sheaves, etc.?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by SVNeko

Curious what you do for the portion of halyard at the clutch when you reef, and if it is a cover how you ensure that it won't snag when going through blocks, sheaves, etc.?

More than half has a cover just like a double braid Dyneema core with polyester cover. The part without cover never reaches the rope clutch but it is also spliced, first separated into 4 groups of thread, then each group cut at an angle with a different length than the other three for tapering and then buried into the Dyneema. The cross-over point is lock-stitched and has a whipping to protect it

I'll post pictures, didn't make them with the first halyard but will do for the second