Is this the right sail for long term cruising

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by kjdavie01

Looking over the specs from North Sail (which the OP provided a link to) this doesn't appear to be a laminate construction sail as we usually understand it. Layers of kevlar and mylar, for instance, tend not to last under cruising use. This appears to be different, being a layup of woven fabric, using a high-tech, low stretch, very UV tolerant (if you believe North Sail's claims) material.
Unless I'm missing something? There's no mylar in it, as some respondents have assumed. Looks to me like an ideal sail for a circumnavigator if what North says is true. Am I missing something? Of course then there's the old adage "Never try anything new until you see who dies from it..."

I had the same question, as oddly the North page doesn't mention mylar. But I'm almost certain it's a mylar laminate -- Carsten could ask them to be sure. Their "500" laminate looks precisely like the Bainbridge cloth I'm using for my sails, and that is certainly mylar laminate. I think it's probably the same cloth altogether.

[Tx J]

Originally Posted by carstenb

This one:

North Sails: Premium Paneled 400 Upwind Sails

Nice rags. I'm with the others who are advising non-laminated sails for the long haul though, who needs the possible hassle a few thousand nm/km down the range.
(I was lucky to buy a boat with several sets of sails, std and racing, including new Dacron cruising Rolly-Taskers, no complaints so far)

Now a minor question: On the North site I was looking around, and a listed sail "option" (under the headsails 'Option' tab, mains too) was this item: "Photo and corner codes".
What the hey are they?

I get the other sail options, but cannot imagine what "Photo and corner codes" are...maybe QR coding marks on the sail to the makers data/specs for reproduction and/or maintenance?
(QR codes are those little coded block images used with mostly smartphone apps which contain data and links/urls to more data/services, similar but much more capable to the older UPC/bar code schemes) .

[Dockhead]

I can just imagine the horror of any power boater who runs across this thread --

You're going to pay what?!For what?! Those rags?! Are you out of your f**** mind?? I can buy 10 years worth of diesel fuel for that!!! What in the hell is the point?! You blow-boaters are f***** idiots, is all I can say.



Fortunately, our power boaters don't look at threads entitled "Are these the right sails etc."

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I can just imagine the horror of any power boater who runs across this thread --

You're going to pay what?!For what?! Those rags?! Are you out of your f**** mind?? I can buy 10 years worth of diesel fuel for that!!! What in the hell is the point?! You blow-boaters are f***** idiots, is all I can say.



Fortunately, our power boaters don't look at threads entitled "Are these the right sails etc."

Yes, DH, we hear that sort of stuff all too often. But I just did a simple calculation relative to our boat, for which we recently bought a new mainsail for ~10K AUD. For that amount, we could have bought around 6250 L of diesel at average recent dockside prices. We burn about 2.5 L/hr cruising at 6 kts in calm waters, so that relates to around 2500 hours and perhaps 15,000 miles covered in ideal conditions. The last mainsail covered over 40,000 miles...

But of course, fuel is not the only cost incurred in motoring. If one adds in filters, oil, belts, impellers and all the other consumables, to say nothing of the labour costs if not DIY (which damn few big m/y folks do) the costs of motoring get a lot higher. And then, when talking big hours and miles, there's the eventual rebuild looming... something else no m/y folks like to talk about, but then few of them ever do the miles or hours that we are considering.

So, when your neighbor berates you for being so foolish as to spend money on "those rags", hold your head up proudly and suggest that he hire an accountant to check his expenses factually!

But then, we all know that sailing is a silly thing to do!s

Jim

[ALLAN WARD]

I am no specialist when it comes to advising you on the right cloth but l am thinking about replacing my North 6/7oz soft norlam radial genoa with a standard dacron one . After approx 6000nm mine is delaminating from the foot up and l dont think there are many options as far as prolonging its life . Someone suggested the issue of finding people who can carry out a sail repair while cruising which l believe is very relevant . We have been cruising in Brazil for the last year and sailmakers were few and far between hence the reason why longetivity is quite a big issue with us .

[Paul L]

What size and weight did you settle on with the North rep?
Do you have a staysail setup also?

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Paul L

What size and weight did you settle on with the North rep?
Do you have a staysail setup also?

We do not have a staysail setup. North has quoted me (approx) 5k euros for this sail (40 foot boat approximatley 420 sq. ft. sail).

Obviously longevity is one of the most important points for us. I don't mind forking out for a good set of sails - but I do mind if they don't last very long.

I'mm fully aware that in an RTW I'll end up replacing the sails on the way around (perhaps even more than once if we do spend 4-5 yars sailing.

carsten

[cortezsailor]

For any young people or people who can't afford these options, who are reading this , just so you know a good Dacron sail can still take you around the world.


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[Paul L]

Originally Posted by carstenb

We do not have a staysail setup. North has quoted me (approx) 5k euros for this sail (40 foot boat approximatley 420 sq. ft. sail).

Obviously longevity is one of the most important points for us. I don't mind forking out for a good set of sails - but I do mind if they don't last very long.

I'mm fully aware that in an RTW I'll end up replacing the sails on the way around (perhaps even more than once if we do spend 4-5 yars sailing.

carsten

So that must be around a 120% genoa on your boat. That's probably a good compromise size for cruising, but I'd want it fairly heavy. It will probably reef OK to 100-105%, but not be too pretty when going smaller.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Disagreeing with some of the other posters, I will say that this is a good choice.
.

I'm going to agree with Dockhead's disagreement. The larger the sail, the more you need a sailcloth designed for large sails. The 400 laminate is specifically designed for sails upward of the 500 square foot range. That's a size where dacron sailcloth has to be really heavy to stand up to the loads. At the point where it's heavy enough, it won't sail at all well in light air. Nor will it be easy to reef or furl in heavy air.

On boats over 40' LOA, unless you want to spend all your sailing time fighting your sailcloth, go with a laminate.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Bash

I'm going to agree with Dockhead's disagreement. The larger the sail, the more you need a sailcloth designed for large sails. The 400 laminate is specifically designed for sails upward of the 500 square foot range. That's a size where dacron sailcloth has to be really heavy to stand up to the loads. At the point where it's heavy enough, it won't sail at all well in light air. Nor will it be easy to reef or furl in heavy air.

On boats over 40' LOA, unless you want to spend all your sailing time fighting your sailcloth, go with a laminate.

interesting range of opinions.

anyone else?

thank you everyone so far

[SailRedemption]

I don't have an opinion, sails and sail material is foreign to me. That said I'm always interested in learning, especially since my boat is on the larger side for sails being 47'. I was half hoping dacron would be alright but someone sail it's not the best choice when the sails get larger..

- Ronnie...on the geaux

[SimonV]

Crunch the numbers with FX sails. I agree dacron for cruising. For much less than 10k you will get a full set.

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[Snowpetrel]

Ive used dacron on some 60-70 foot sloops with no problems worse than a less than optimum shape. On a furler the extra weight is not a big Isssue, and the savings in cost will go some way towards buying you a good code zero type sail for light airs. But ive also seen some old laminated rags that ahd already done a round the world, or a fair chunk of it, and looked pretty beat up go on to do a fair few more hard miles. So both will work fine, but I think the dacron is always going to be by far the most economical choice for a cruiser, and Laminated will be the fastest... Your choice. I guess at some point the laminated sails will prove to be just as tough (they already far outlast dacron in terms of holding a good shape) but I dont think thats been shown yet? Interested to hear what you decide to get and how it goes.

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[hoppy]

Not that I have even managed to get out of Greece yet, but a few years back I got new "heavy" dacron sails, with extra stitching and other things to aid durability as I was hoping to sail to Aus. The genoa also was only 135% rather than 150%. To compensate the expected less than stellar light weather performance I also go a "code 1". The white sails were substantially cheaper than what North quoted me at the time.

I just wonder if it would not be better (cheaper) to go for Dacron and replace when needed. If you get Rolly Tasker, you can perhaps pick up the second set directly from the factory