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Old 08-10-2012, 09:54   #16
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Re: Is this enlongation acceptable?

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
It is also tough to tell the thickness from the photo - that is also a driver for me.
Its 3/8" thick. So its pretty substantial stuff.

It is showing some signs of slight pitting but I cannot see any fractures or cracks. I'll have it PT tested. The welds still look to be in good shape too.
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Old 08-10-2012, 10:02   #17
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Re: Is this enlongation acceptable?

I hate to say it but once the metal has started to deform like this it should be replaced. In this case the age isn't the issue, but using the wrong size pin has nibbled at the edges. Which means it will never be able to properly distribute the load properly, and it will always be a weak spot.

You might be able to drill out to the next larger pin size, which would work, assuming there is enough metal left to handle the loads, but if not, it should be replaced. It's like driving with your tired flat... It will work for a while, but once they have been damaged re-inflating them is just ignoring the damage already done.
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Old 08-10-2012, 10:50   #18
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Re: Is this enlongation acceptable?

Personally, I'd replace it. Yes it will require $ to have a new one fabricated but it won't be THAT much when you put it as a percentage in the rerigging budget. If you leave it alone, it will always be there niggling at the back of your head. You might as well replace it now while you are undergoing the big rerig, rather than have to deal with it later.
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Old 08-10-2012, 11:04   #19
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Re: Is this enlongation acceptable?

Looks pretty good for it's age. However, you are doing a complete re-rig I think (?) You could have the pitted part tig welded, dressed and have the whole fitting electropolished. (have it dye penetrant inspected)
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Old 08-10-2012, 11:06   #20
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Re: Is this enlongation acceptable?

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Personally, I'd replace it. Yes it will require $ to have a new one fabricated but it won't be THAT much when you put it as a percentage in the rerigging budget. If you leave it alone, it will always be there niggling at the back of your head. You might as well replace it now while you are undergoing the big rerig, rather than have to deal with it later.
I wouldn't go that far if it PT's OK. As for the pitting it can be ground out and tig welded back up. For that matter a short sleeve could be tigged in, to bring the hole to the pin size.

My concern would be between the metal and the wood, where it's bleeding out rust. I'm sure there is pitting in there as well. But how deep?
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Old 08-10-2012, 11:09   #21
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Re: Is this enlongation acceptable?

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I wouldn't go that far if it PT's OK. As for the pitting it can be ground out and tig welded back up. For that matter a short sleeve could be tigged in, to bring the hole to the pin size.

My concern would be between the metal and the wood, where it's bleeding out rust. I'm sure there is pitting in there as well. But how deep?
Its actually not rust bleeding out. If you look closely at the photo its a chip in the wood where I was banging on it to remove the piece. There is some darkness on the inboard side of the piece but it is mostly from old varnish and the discolored epoxy they used to put the thing on.

So its not that bad looking once we had it off. The metal is mostly still shiny and the inside of the piece look surprisingly good.
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Old 08-10-2012, 14:54   #22
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Re: Is this enlongation acceptable?

IMHO

Normally, such fittings are designed with huge margins of safety. If yours has been built this way, then clean it, check the weld, use the right size of pin, and that's probably that.

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Old 08-10-2012, 15:28   #23
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Re: Is this enlongation acceptable?

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Today we took apart some of the bow sprit as we start to rerig our boat. One of things I found is that the very front fitting on the end of the sprit that connects the whisker stays, forward stay, and bobstay has some enlongation of the holes. I am no expert in stainless steel and I'm seeking input on how bad it is for this to happen.

The "fins" on this piece are quite thick.



Thoughts?
So figure that you only asked because you didn't want to replace it and hoped others would agree. Now that you have both its' Ok and replace it recommendations; what you going to do?
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Old 08-10-2012, 15:38   #24
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Re: Is this enlongation acceptable?

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So figure that you only asked because you didn't want to replace it and hoped others would agree. Now that you have both its' Ok and replace it recommendations; what you going to do?
I'm sending it to a fabricator that is making up the rest of the rigging for testing and I suppose I'll go with what he says.

If everyone had said, "Nope no good." or if someone had said, "No that is manifestly unsafe, I'm a metallurgist and I know." I would have probably just said fabricate another one. As it stands I might be throwing money away having it tested, but its worth a shot. The thing is 3/8" thick. Hopefully it passes muster.

As with many matters nautical, it seems there are many opinions and variables to consider. Sometimes it seems difficult to navigate this web of confusion. I have only so much money. Do I replace this piece and not buy extra charts? Do I leave this piece and replace a different worrisome part? etc.

This piece is one of the few pieces of rigging I was hoping to preserve since it is sort of a specialty piece and its so stoutly built.
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Old 08-10-2012, 15:51   #25
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Re: Is this enlongation acceptable?

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I'm sending it to a fabricator that is making up the rest of the rigging for testing and I suppose I'll go with what he says.

If everyone had said, "Nope no good." or if someone had said, "No that is manifestly unsafe, I'm a metallurgist and I know." I would have probably just said fabricate another one. As it stands I might be throwing money away having it tested, but its worth a shot. The thing is 3/8" thick. Hopefully it passes muster.

As with many matters nautical, it seems there are many opinions and variables to consider. Sometimes it seems difficult to navigate this web of confusion. I have only so much money. Do I replace this piece and not buy extra charts? Do I leave this piece and replace a different worrisome part? etc.

This piece is one of the few pieces of rigging I was hoping to preserve since it is sort of a specialty piece and its so stoutly built.

Yep, cranse irons aren't cheap. 3/8" thick I wouldn't worry about it, it's way overbuilt. I see commercial boats using fittings in much worse shape for much higher loads than that all the time. I agree a bigger pin would be wise, but I wouldn't replace the iron. Of course what you really want is a custom cast bronze cranse iron...
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Old 08-10-2012, 16:15   #26
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Re: Is this enlongation acceptable?

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Of course what you really want is a custom cast bronze cranse iron...
And attach that to SS rigging?

Being 3/8" thick it's probably OK but w/o actually seeing in ones own hands it's hard to know for sure. As a Machinist (45 yrs.) I make a lot of my own gear, but I wouldn't commit myself of a picture over the internet.
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Old 08-10-2012, 16:18   #27
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Re: Is this enlongation acceptable?

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And attach that to SS rigging?

Being 3/8" thick it's probably OK but w/o actually seeing in ones own hands it's hard to know for sure. As a Machinist (45 yrs.) I make a lot of my own gear, but I wouldn't commit myself of a picture over the internet.
I appreciate your feedback. I recognize the limitations of the internet and understood going into it no one could say for certain if this piece was okay or not.

I was just looking to see if I was missing some basic thing where everyone was like, "HELL NO." In which case I would save a few bucks on the testing and analysis of the piece.
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Old 08-10-2012, 16:19   #28
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3/8" thick on a 32' sailboat?? That is well overbuilt!! I just installed a bobstay on a Tayana 37 and it was 1/4" thick. With some luck on the test, you might be installing the same one again.
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Old 08-10-2012, 16:22   #29
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Re: Is this enlongation acceptable?

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3/8" thick on a 32' sailboat?? That is well overbuilt!! I just installed a bobstay on a Tayana 37 and it was 1/4" thick. With some luck on the test, you might be installing the same one again.
Our boat is just a tad "overbuilt".
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Old 08-10-2012, 16:30   #30
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Re: Is this enlongation acceptable?

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. Of course what you really want is a custom cast bronze cranse iron...
you mean like this? http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...oat-90613.html

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