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Old 05-01-2013, 12:50   #16
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Re: Is an innerforestay necessary for cruising

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Originally Posted by sww914 View Post
Thanks, good to know that we've been sailing our SLUTTER wrong for the last 1500 miles down the coast. Weird that it sails so perfectly with both headsails out anywhere from close hauled to a beam reach when you say that it's wrong. Gosh I don't even need the autopilot with a fresh breeze and the wind at or ahead of the beam. How stupid of me!
Isn't slutter a term for a sloop that was turned into a cutter with the addition of a inner or solent rig? If so, then your is a cutter not a slutter.... this is what he was talking about.
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Old 05-01-2013, 22:51   #17
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Two headsails flying will on be to one's benefit if the forward sail is non overlapping and the inner sail provides significantly more overlap. Parallel sails only interfere with each other. One big sail is always better.

It is an idea that was tried years ago and discarded. However many cruisers find the rig useful with an inner heavy wind sail.
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Old 06-01-2013, 03:13   #18
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Re: Is an innerforestay necessary for cruising

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I had an ATN gale sail. I sold it. You still have to go forward to attach it.

Rather than a cutter rig, does your mast have room for a solent staysail? No running backstays needed.

I went through the same dilemma a few years ago. When I furl my 130 down to 100 and start to lose shape (depends on the point of sail), and am still overpowered, what do I do? Furl the genoa away, and hoist the staysail that has been sitting on deck. I never have to leave the cockpit. To think I could wrestle a 865 sq ft genoa to the deck alone, secure it, and hoist a smaller sail is crazy.

Short of a staysail, I think the ATN is your most cost effective alternative. Just realize the conditions you will be in when you need it, and what it would be like on the bow. Cwyckham is correct.
My sloop has been rigged with an inner stay an a solent stay. With a large Genoa there is no need for the inner stay sail. If I have a smaller gib out then running with two head sails works in lighter conditions. I have found that the solent gib has added more flexibiltiy and is more useful than the inner staysail. Both my staysail and solent gib are hank on and can sit in a bag on deck.

Last winter we were cruising the Caribbean and only used our Genoa on the furler. I would recommend you stay with your rig the way it is. The boat was designed as a sloop, no need to add a second headsail.
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Old 06-01-2013, 05:13   #19
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Re: Is an innerforestay necessary for cruising

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The problem with changing from your 100% jib to your storm jib is that it will be blowing something like 35 knots at the time. You'll be on your hands and knees on the foredeck, being plunged through waves. You'll have to unroll the jib all the way and then drop it on the deck. As it gets dropped (actually, you'll probably have to pull it down), you have to gather it up and tie it to the lifelines in stages so that it stays on board the boat (remember that the sail isn't hanked on, so it becomes free to roam as it gets dropped on a roller furler). The boarding waves will make this fun. .....................................
This is good information for many, but didn't you say you had the "Old Schaffer" roller furling? This is the wire luff separate form the headstay, right? If so, you can leave it furled and standing and raise a hanked on storm jib on the headstay with little fuss. I would not add the inner stay. 'even use the little storm main alone if needed.
Edit: I reread your first post and you didn't say "old" Schaffer furling so all I said is meaningless, but I still would not add the inner stay. With the reefed main or storm sail on the main you could still leave a bit of jib unfurled for balance. I know a roller "furling" won't maintain proper shape like a roller "reefing" rig, but for a small "hanky" unfurled it won't matter. Some might not like the risk of the genoa unfurling in heavy weather so you must be secure with the strength of your furling line, or better yet, mechanically lock you furling drum in position.
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Old 06-01-2013, 05:42   #20
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You cannot write the check on the way down.
Thats funny!
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Old 06-01-2013, 06:35   #21
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Re: Is an Innerforestay Necessary for Cruising

I have a movable inner forestay installed by the PO. To date I have not flown the staysail but Have rigged the inner and traveling backs as it offers a lot of stiffness to the rig and that is piece of mind. Necessary.....No. Nice to have...Yes.
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Old 06-01-2013, 20:50   #22
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Re: Is an innerforestay necessary for cruising

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Originally Posted by sww914 View Post
Thanks, good to know that we've been sailing our SLUTTER wrong for the last 1500 miles down the coast. Weird that it sails so perfectly with both headsails out anywhere from close hauled to a beam reach when you say that it's wrong. Gosh I don't even need the autopilot with a fresh breeze and the wind at or ahead of the beam. How stupid of me!
Funjohnson is correct. You don't have a slutter, you have a cutter. I also didn't say it is wrong to sail with 2 sails upwind in a slutter, I just said most don't (though it probably isn't the best unless you have a lot of room between stays and you're using something like a yankee up front).

I assume that your rather aggressive tone is because you thought I was insulting cutters by calling them slutters. I should have clarified as the term slutter isn't known to all. It is a sloop with an inner forestay (so the mast is further forward than on your cutter). Sorry for the confusion.
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Old 06-01-2013, 21:09   #23
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Re: Is an innerforestay necessary for cruising

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My sloop has been rigged with an inner stay an a solent stay. With a large Genoa there is no need for the inner stay sail. If I have a smaller gib out then running with two head sails works in lighter conditions. I have found that the solent gib has added more flexibiltiy and is more useful than the inner staysail. Both my staysail and solent gib are hank on and can sit in a bag on deck.

Last winter we were cruising the Caribbean and only used our Genoa on the furler. I would recommend you stay with your rig the way it is. The boat was designed as a sloop, no need to add a second headsail.
So does this mean you have 3 stays? A headstay, a solent stay from just below the headstay on the mast to a couple feet behind the headstay on the deck, and then an inner forestay further back with running backstays? Interesting rig.
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Old 06-01-2013, 21:34   #24
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Re: Is an innerforestay necessary for cruising

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Originally Posted by funjohnson View Post
Isn't slutter a term for a sloop that was turned into a cutter with the addition of a inner or solent rig? If so, then your is a cutter not a slutter.... this is what he was talking about.
So in the late '80's Bob Perry indicated he had been using the term "Slutter" to refer to a "Sloop with Cutter option", that is a sloop with a removable inner forestay, ie. staysail stay. I do not recall him explicitly saying he had coined the term but I feel it is a reasonable inference. I have the article buried in the room of a kid who should be going to sleep and do not want to go digging for it.

I do not believe he meant to include solent stays as one would never fly a headsail and solent sail at the same time, whereas in a cutter rig the headsail and staysail are likely to both be flown depending on wind strength, cut of sails and point of sail.

For the distinctions between the various stays forward of the mast see the attached sketch. For a more in depth discussion of my understanding of the terminology see the post here: installing a babystay
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Old 07-01-2013, 02:46   #25
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Re: Is an innerforestay necessary for cruising

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So does this mean you have 3 stays? A headstay, a solent stay from just below the headstay on the mast to a couple feet behind the headstay on the deck, and then an inner forestay further back with running backstays? Interesting rig.
Yes it does. Only the headstay has a furler though. The PO added the solent stay. It allows me to rig for sail changes before conditions get too rough.
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Old 08-01-2013, 18:01   #26
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Re: Is an Innerforestay Necessary for Cruising

graydog,

We've set up a number of cruising boats for long distance cruising. For the Caribbean, the ATN Gale Sail is an excellent solution. The way we would set the boat up would be with a modest sized genoa that could be safely reefed when needed but ideally not need to be frequently reefed. For light air work, we'd use our CLASS (Cruisers Light Air Sail Solution) paired with a Facnor furler. There's a firsthand account of cruising with a CLASS starting around post #43 in this thread - Hunter 40.5

The reality around the type of cruising you have planned, is that if you pay attention to weather, remain clear of hurricane/cyclone zones, you will likely not be in conditions requiring storm sails. I know people who have circumnavigated and rarely seen much more than 30-35 knots. That's not to say you shouldn't be prepared, but I certainly wouldn't obsess over it. Most people make the mistake of not preparing for light air and that's usually a far greater challenge for them to deal with than gales.

If you are sailing by yourself, I'd prefer a main with a deep enough reef to get the area roughly equivalent to what you'd have with a trysail. If you get caught with your pants down so to speak, dealing with the trysail is not what you want to be doing if things have already hit the fan.

Sea room is your friend. Sometimes the best thing is to drop the main and run off with just a storm jib or even bare poles. Stay on top of the weather, don't be too proud to not employ a router/forecaster for trickier passages, and you will likely be far more concerned with finding a good spot in the anchorage than heavy weather sailing. And speaking of employing a router, some of the best and most experienced sailors I know use a router.
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Old 08-01-2013, 18:11   #27
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Re: Is an Innerforestay Necessary for Cruising

There are Chicken Stays too. Below the Babystay. Just above the boom.
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Old 08-01-2013, 19:09   #28
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Re: Is an Innerforestay Necessary for Cruising

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There are Chicken Stays too. Below the Babystay. Just above the boom.
What does it do?
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Old 09-01-2013, 18:20   #29
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What is a chicken stay for? ... Prevents the mast from breaking I think the most common use is to counteract extreme spinnaker pole forces.
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