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Old 10-05-2013, 18:35   #1
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Installing an Inner Forestay

I'd like to get some opinions on my soon to be inner forestay. I plan to use it as a cutter jib or storm jib in relation to the weather, obviously. It'll be a removable stay using a stay tensioner. I'm also installing running back stays.

I have a picked location for the hound on the mast (see picture-red line), which is just above a spinnaker boom lift/halyard, which is about 60% up on the "I" dim. And the deck fitting is about 50% back on the "J" dim.

The main sail is 425 sf and the genoa is 625 sf (135%), which is way over powered in anything over 20kt. But excellent in light air.

So I'd like to reef down the main (it has 3 sets) and use a second jib w/o the genoa. And if things really pick up, then I'd go to a storm jib. I tried a temporary inner jib in this spot using just the halyard and it balanced out really well. Its just the mast started pumping.

Any thoughts?

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Old 10-05-2013, 18:37   #2
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Re: Installing an Inner Forestay

I have one on my 462 Morgan that flies a storm sail. With the deepest reef it gives a good ride in extreme wind. You'll like it.
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Old 10-05-2013, 19:29   #3
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Re: Installing an Inner Forestay

What will you do under the deck? Are you going to offer the inner forestay any support from within?
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Old 10-05-2013, 19:45   #4
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Re: Installing an Inner Forestay

My inner forestay is "stock" and performs the function of flying the staysail and stiffening the mast from longitudinal "wobble." It is through-bolted with a large backing plate all SS. I just had all my standing rigging replaced and the guy did a good job but apparently forgot about the inner forestay (which has a riser from the V-Berth frame to the backing plate for the inner forestay. When he raked the mast he overstressed the little connector/stiffenner inside and it came unlayed.

Yes, to answer your question, you need to do all you can to distribute the load so your coach house roof doesn't "oil-can" in rough seas...
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Old 10-05-2013, 19:58   #5
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Re: Installing an Inner Forestay

This is on my wish list, and boat has connection points already in place on deck and on mast (but has never had stay installed).

FYI the lower attachment point is a strap that goes through deck and is secured chain-plate style to the aft bulkhead of the chain locker.

Actually my issues are the staysail sheet blocks and running backstays. The forestay is the easy part.
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Old 10-05-2013, 20:03   #6
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Re: Installing an Inner Forestay

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Originally Posted by Dennis.G View Post
This is on my wish list, and boat has connection points already in place on deck and on mast (but has never had stay installed).

FYI the lower attachment point is a strap that goes through deck and is secured chain-plate style to the aft bulkhead of the chain locker.

Actually my issues are the staysail sheet blocks and running backstays. The forestay is the easy part.

I think my boat might benefit from this as well because she's so bow tender, and you answered one concern I had -- run it to the bulkhead of the anchor locker. But I don't understand what you mean by "running backstays." Running would suggest they're made up of line?
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Old 10-05-2013, 20:03   #7
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Re: Installing an Inner Forestay

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Originally Posted by unbusted67 View Post
What will you do under the deck? Are you going to offer the inner forestay any support from within?
I'm in the process of building a dissappearing Samson post, which will attach the deck to the hull beneath. The post will server two purposes, support for the deck and a bridle attachment for a sea anchor.

The bridle this far aft will help to keep the bow from nose diving into the big swells, I hope. Now I just need to find some BIG chocks to carry the bridle.
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Old 10-05-2013, 20:17   #8
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Re: Installing an Inner Forestay

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
But I don't understand what you mean by "running backstays." Running would suggest they're made up of line?
Running back stays are also detachable and are tightened down with purchase blocks or other means.
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Old 10-05-2013, 20:49   #9
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Re: Installing an Inner Forestay

Running Backstay
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Old 10-05-2013, 21:05   #10
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Re: Installing an Inner Forestay

Re mast pumping: Did you have your mainsail set and appropriately balanced with the test staysail? The times my mast started pumping was 1. without the mainsail, and 2. with a jambed reef line which stopped me getting enough tension on the main halyard.

I have a fractional rig with an inner forestay for staysail or stormsail and when the winds get up I love the balance of staysail and reefed main (2nd/3rd or 4th reef depending on conditions. Also achieve good balance as a cutter rig.

Re blocks for staysail, I share the running jib sheet blocks and have placed extra bocks further aft to give the best run to the sheet winches.
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Old 10-05-2013, 21:21   #11
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Re: Installing an Inner Forestay

The new main sail that I have was designed to have a bit of a puff to the luff. But if I tighten down the hyd. backstay it bends the mast and flattens the main for more performance. Plus, if I'm running a storm jib I will not have the support of the main. It'll be reefed or all the way on the boom.

So, unless I tighten the backstay the mast can have some wobble. And I sure don't want to put in a inner forestay w/o some running backstay to support the mast, or it could get broken at the hound.

The next thing I need to figure out is the size of wire/stay I need to run. The genoa stay is 3/8", so I would think the inner should be the same or one size smaller (5/16").
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Old 10-05-2013, 21:50   #12
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Re: Installing an Inner Forestay

On my 38 footer the forestay is 10mm and the inner forestay 8mm. Very adequate.
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Old 10-05-2013, 21:55   #13
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Re: Installing an Inner Forestay

Just did my metric to imperial conversions - your sizing is the same as mine.
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Old 10-05-2013, 21:57   #14
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Re: Installing an Inner Forestay

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On my 38 footer the forestay is 10mm and the inner forestay 8mm. Very adequate.
That's what I figure too.

Still no comment on the placement of my fittings. I did talk to a sail maker and he says what I suggested is par.

So far this is what I've done. My blog>>> http://choate-40.blogspot.com/2013/0...-upgrades.html
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Old 10-05-2013, 21:58   #15
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Re: Installing an Inner Forestay

Personally, would not go with a bow drogue. If conditions are bad enough that you cannot sail, it is dangerous to have the bow into the wind. The wave action will throw the boat stern first into the wave trough and puts extreme pressure on the rudder. Your spade rudder boat is particularly vulnerable to damaging the rudder in those conditions. Many boats that have used the bow drogue routine have ended up with a disabled rudder. Way better to drag warps or drogues from the stern with the storm jib sheeted in hard as a stabilizer. In EXTREME conditions, sail down the wave at an angle in EXTREME conditions. Read Moitessier's "Cape Horn, the Logical Route" if you've never heard of doing this.

As far as the deck fitting for your staysail, a beefy beam laminated in place or a couple of hefty pieces of plywood laminated to the deck that will carry the load out to the hull should do you just fine. I wouldn't halve the 'J' measurement for the deck fitting, would put it somewhere around 2/3rds 'J'. You can get a sail that's large enough to give you effective drive when the jib is struck but you still want to sail. It will also be a great sail for reaching conditions in conjunction with the jib. You could put reef points on the sail and use it as a storm sail. If you wanted to put roller furling on it, could furl it down any size that you want though I'm not fond of r/f on staysails. Might want to consult a N/A to figure out where exactly would be the best place on deck to locate it to balance the rig.

Running backs should take care of any pumping that you have with the staysail. Using Dyneema or Spectra line for the runners and the staysail stay. Might even be able to get by using deadeyes rather than blocks or levers to tension the stays or at least the staysail stay. It takes very little tension on the staysail stay to pull the mast out of column.

If you want to be careful with your main. Would reccomend a Storm Trisail. They aren't the best setting sail but some sail aft of the mast is necessary for a boat to go to windward in serious winds. A third reef in the main will give a much better setting sail but you risk damaging the main. That is the real reason for a storm trisail. Last thing you want is a destroyed main with several thousand miles to your next landfall on an Island without a sail maker or repair possibilities.
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