Inmast furling again.

[daletournier]

I now have some experience (not much) with the inmast furler on the new boat.
When I furl the sail ,no matter what I do I end up with creases, is this normal? A sail can't be perfectly flat or its not really a sail, so if its not flat how can it roll away without some creases?
So far I'm really not sold on the inmast furler thing, I know its meant to be easy but im slower using this than I was using my slab reefing on my last boat. I spend alot of time trying to get it to not crease, without success. Sail is original (13 years old) but appears to have done little work.
This could be completely me not knowing what to expect or how it should feel and look.going in or out,
advice?

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[barnaclejim]

a couple of thoughts. furling sails cannot have battens which help to hold shape over time and in mast furling in particular, causes some premature wear on your sail. So it may be impossible especially with a 13 year old sail to keep it from having wrinkles when furling. You can gain some shape with leech lines and maybe with sheet tension but likely will have a baggy sail. Not a problem with slower cruising boats but maybe a problem if you want to be sporty and fast. It is one of those trade offs for ease of handling.

[goat]

Adjust your topping lift to change your boom angle a few degrees up or down to see if it makes a difference. Also, if it goes in and out okay, would there be more creases flaked on your boom or furled in your mast? A new stiff sail works best with roller furling, so don't give up quite yet. When operating correctly they offer excellent convenience at the cost of performance. Just another trade off. I'm happy with my slab reefing but didn't mind RF on my last boat. Where you intend to sail also makes a huge difference on what is a better set up.

[Vasco]

If you've done everything right then it might be the sail. Release the vang, loose mainsheet, furl keeping tension on the outhaul. If it still creases it's the old sail.

[robert sailor]

If the boom angle is right and the operator does his part the only thing that can stop a proper wrinkle free furl is the sail. These sails are cheap to replace so it doesn't make sense to have a poor one that can give you problems when you least need them.

[daletournier]

I think im going to replace the sail, just got quote back.from Taskers Phuket.
In-Mast Furling Mainsail OffshoreUSD 1,920.00
Luff 51.5 ft : Foot 20 ft : Area 505 sqft
9.88 oz Challenge High Mass Fibre Dacron Crosscut
UV Cover Sunbrella at clew both sides
Lufttape Dia TBA

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[daletournier]

The creases are more prominent than the photos show. I just pulled the sail in and out twice at anchor, no wind and still can not do it without creases.

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[kas_1611]

If you try to furl your sail against the "grain", that is with the sail feeding into the slot from the wrong side so it has to bend through a very large angle this can put extra friction and strain into the system which can result in more creases and jamming.

Most furlers furl in anticlockwise so if you kick the boom out to port the sail will feed in straight through the slot onto the furler. With the boom to starboard the sail has to bend round the slot in the mast. Hope that's clear

With the boom out to port and the wind from just starboard of the bow the sail will furl in easier and neater. This should reduce creases and minimise the risk of jamming. By keeping a little tension in the outhaul as you furl you will also reduce creasing.

However, like any fabric, once you have a crease it is extremely difficult to remove it and the fabric gets a memory so will tend to crease at that point again and again. We have an annoying crease at the foot of our main that we have had almost since day 1 but it is just something we have to live with and it doesn't do anything to reduce the performance, we still make hull speed on a close run or bean reach.

Keiron

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I think im going to replace the sail, just got quote back.from Taskers Phuket.
In-Mast Furling Mainsail OffshoreUSD 1,920.00
Luff 51.5 ft : Foot 20 ft : Area 505 sqft
9.88 oz Challenge High Mass Fibre Dacron Crosscut
UV Cover Sunbrella at clew both sides
Lufttape Dia TBA

Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Does this price include someone local to measure and to recut if needed? I've seen a fair number of inmast mains for cruising boats having to come off multiple times to get correct.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by kas_1611

If you try to furl your sail against the "grain", that is with the sail feeding into the slot from the wrong side so it has to bend through a very large angle this can put extra friction and strain into the system which can result in more creases and jamming.

Most furlers furl in anticlockwise so if you kick the boom out to port the sail will feed in straight through the slot onto the furler. With the boom to starboard the sail has to bend round the slot in the mast. Hope that's clear

With the boom out to port and the wind from just starboard of the bow the sail will furl in easier and neater. This should reduce creases and minimise the risk of jamming. By keeping a little tension in the outhaul as you furl you will also reduce creasing.

However, like any fabric, once you have a crease it is extremely difficult to remove it and the fabric gets a memory so will tend to crease at that point again and again. We have an annoying crease at the foot of our main that we have had almost since day 1 but it is just something we have to live with and it doesn't do anything to reduce the performance, we still make hull speed on a close run or bean reach.

Keiron

It could be as you say the sail has creases from being stored previously, (memory) the shape to my eye dosent look to bad.

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[AiniA]

Originally Posted by kas_1611

If you try to furl your sail against the "grain", that is with the sail feeding into the slot from the wrong side so it has to bend through a very large angle this can put extra friction and strain into the system which can result in more creases and jamming.

Most furlers furl in anticlockwise so if you kick the boom out to port the sail will feed in straight through the slot onto the furler. With the boom to starboard the sail has to bend round the slot in the mast. Hope that's clear

With the boom out to port and the wind from just starboard of the bow the sail will furl in easier and neater. This should reduce creases and minimise the risk of jamming. By keeping a little tension in the outhaul as you furl you will also reduce creasing.

However, like any fabric, once you have a crease it is extremely difficult to remove it and the fabric gets a memory so will tend to crease at that point again and again. We have an annoying crease at the foot of our main that we have had almost since day 1 but it is just something we have to live with and it doesn't do anything to reduce the performance, we still make hull speed on a close run or bean reach.

Keiron

If the sail is fully out we furl in whichever direction produces the easiest furl - i.e. turning in from the windward side of the slot. We went from an old sail (not new when we started our rtw) which did crease a bit to a new sail which does not crease. Even the numerous small creases on the old sail did not seem to be a problem. They stretched flat after only a couple of minutes of use.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Does this price include someone local to measure and to recut if needed? I've seen a fair number of inmast mains for cruising boats having to come off multiple times to get correct.

No it dosent. It should be simple(i hope) to get this one right, being a Catalina, ive given them measurements but I'm sure they will have this sail on file....famous last words...lol.

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[Pete7]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I think im going to replace the sail, just got quote back.from Taskers Phuket.
In-Mast Furling Mainsail OffshoreUSD 1,920.00
Luff 51.5 ft : Foot 20 ft : Area 505 sqft
9.88 oz Challenge High Mass Fibre Dacron Crosscut
UV Cover Sunbrella at clew both sides
Lufttape Dia TBA

Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

We have also just ordered a new inmast main, it's cut and being stitched at the moment. 200 sq ft in 7.5 oz Dimension Polyant C-Breeze for £870 (winter discount price - Northern Hemisphere).

Have you had chance to go sailing with the main? if so is the sail stretched or panels baggy which I would expect after 13 years and certainly ours was. The crosscut panels showed a baggy shape and the leech has a hook were the leech hasn't stretched to the same extent as the remainder of the sail. Whilst it could perhaps be re-cut the costs don't really stack up. The original sail material is unknown but one of the cheaper ones judging by the paperwork that came with the boat. So after 16 years its time for a new sail.

Shame because other than being baggy the sail is in a very good and clean condition due to being stored neatly rolled up inside the mast rather than stuffed into a sail bag or left out in the elements on the boom.

Finally how does your price compare to couple of local sail makers to a similar spec, definitely worth checking before ordering.

Pete

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Pete7

We have also just ordered a new inmast main, it's cut and being stitched at the moment. 200 sq ft in 7oz Dimension Polyant C-Breeze for £870 (winter discount price - Northern Hemisphere).

Have you had chance to go sailing with the main? if so is the sail stretched or panels baggy which I would expect after 13 years and certainly ours was. The crosscut panels showed a baggy shape and the leech has a hook were the leech hasn't stretched to the same extent as the remainder of the sail. Whilst it could perhaps be re-cut the costs don't really stack up. The original sail material is unknown but one of the cheaper ones judging by the paperwork that came with the boat. So after 16 years its time for a new sail.

Shame because other than being baggy the sail is in a very good and clean condition due to being stored neatly rolled up inside the mast rather than stuffed into a sail bag or left out in the elements on the boom.

Finally how does your price compare to couple of local sail makers to a similar spec, definitely worth checking before ordering.

Pete

Yes I sailed it last week and it sailed well. Im certainly no expert when it comes to sails although ive done quite abit of sailing. The shape didnt look to bad but as you nentioned in your post the leach does have abit of a hook in it. The material does look ok.
Your post has help me to decide I will replace it, whats another $3,000!!!!! ......I certainly liked the world better when the Aud was beating up the Usd which is now not the case.

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[Pete7]

I know what you mean, the £ has crashed since Brexit so everything costs more, still worth it for the price of freedom

However, a baggy sail with a hooked leech will definitely slow you down probably be slower than no sail at all. You have a half decent sail cloth in the quote so it should last a decade and being rolled up does make a difference rather than scrunched up on the boom.

Keep the old one and flog it off at the start of your next sailing season. Our old one is going on e bay in the Spring. Should get £100 for it and someone will be grateful for a cheap sail.

Pete