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Old 10-05-2015, 08:48   #1
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In mast roller issues

I have a 2010 Jeanneau 53 with an in-mast roller. Lately I have been having issues when trying to bring the sail out with my out haul where the sail will jam up in the vertical slot in the mast. I have to work it back in and out, sometimes pulling the sail out by hand. I have tried tighten up the main halyard as tight as I can make it but that didn't seem to help. I also try in hauling the sail tight when I bring it in, but that doesn't always help. Any suggestions? Comments as to the benefits and negatives of in mast rollers or other systems can be a topic for other threads, just constructive suggestions are appreciated, Thanks
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Old 10-05-2015, 09:05   #2
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Re: In mast roller issues

You did not say what type of equipment you have, so please understand my experience is limited to what I have--Selden.

In addition to the outhaul, to get a smooth withdrawal, one has to pull out the sail with the endless furling line as well. That is the line used to furl the sail, and it is also used to unfurl it. Just pull on the line in the opposite direction to unfurl the sail simultaneously with the outhaul. I pull the outhaul out with my right hand; the furling line out with my left. Pulling the outhaul only will simply tighten the sail on the furling mechanism. That mechanism needs to turn as well to relase the sail smoothly, and the furling line does that.
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Old 10-05-2015, 09:19   #3
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Re: In mast roller issues

On Selden inmast furlers I have seen similar trouble in 3 following situations:

- the inmast extrusion was not tensioned enough,
- the mast had too much pre-bend,
- the sail got old and baggy.

In every case riggers / sailmakers had to be asked in to correct things.

Definitely there may be other challenges too.

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Old 10-05-2015, 09:42   #4
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Re: In mast roller issues

Try adjusting your boom angle, RFs seem to work better with the boom slightly up from 90* to the mast. Of course it's been a few years since I've had a furling main, and my memory is shot so it could be lower than ninety.

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Old 10-05-2015, 09:50   #5
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Re: In mast roller issues

We sail a 2003 Jeanneau DS 40 and had a similar problem until we got the boom angle right then in and out easy.


By the way there is a Jeanneau owner website that you join and a lot of experience there and very helpful guys who own the same boat. Just had a major discussion on this problem.
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:05   #6
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Re: In mast roller issues

I have the same issue with my Hylas, Selden in mast furler. I just took my sail to the sailmaker and the issue was the stiff section of the sail near the head had some permanent curvature to it from being rolled up tightly for extended periods of time. It would bind up in the slot going in and out. My boat also has vertical battens that really have little effect except contributing to the friction when furling. The recommendation was to repair the curved head section and remove the battens. I will post results of the fix as soon as I get it back and try it.


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Old 10-05-2015, 10:16   #7
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Re: In mast roller issues

I'm now on my 3rd consecutive Jeanneau with in-mast furling. Unless you've change the bend in the mast by re-tensioning stays or have changed your vang or topping lift tensions significantly then the most likely reason for the problems you are seeing is that the mainsail is starting to lose shape. This means that in certain areas the wrapped sail is more voluminous and this leads to it binding on being pulled out. If you've furled the sail with lots of tension on the outhaul then you can probably see or feel that area as it is most likely in the bottom 1/4 or 1/5 of the sail.
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Old 10-05-2015, 13:03   #8
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Re: In mast roller issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanshin View Post
I'm now on my 3rd consecutive Jeanneau with in-mast furling. Unless you've change the bend in the mast by re-tensioning stays or have changed your vang or topping lift tensions significantly then the most likely reason for the problems you are seeing is that the mainsail is starting to lose shape. This means that in certain areas the wrapped sail is more voluminous and this leads to it binding on being pulled out. If you've furled the sail with lots of tension on the outhaul then you can probably see or feel that area as it is most likely in the bottom 1/4 or 1/5 of the sail.
+1 on the main sail starting to lose shape. On my 2007 Jeanneau 54, the occasional problems in unfurling the main all disappeared after changing to new sails last year (all things being equal with the mast bend and rig tensioning, which I also agree should be the first are to look. However, you said that your issues have appeared of late, assuming no changes to your rig)
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Old 10-05-2015, 13:18   #9
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Re: In mast roller issues

From your description I doubt this is your issue, but we had a problem with ours bringing the sail both in and out due to the previous owner replacing the outhaul with a line that was a very oversized line. We noticed the main was very hard to bring in and out during the sea trial but where so focused on "the big stuff" that it kinda slipped under the radar.

Then during our first offshore trip, bringing the boat down from Maryland to the Bahamas, the added tension from the outhaul actually twisted the boom car out of it's track. We replaced the outhaul with the right sized line and it's been (sorry has to be done)...smooth sailing ever since.

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Old 10-05-2015, 13:34   #10
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Re: In mast roller issues

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Originally Posted by goat View Post
Try adjusting your boom angle, RFs seem to work better with the boom slightly up from 90* to the mast. Of course it's been a few years since I've had a furling main, and my memory is shot so it could be lower than ninety.

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Still correct. The boom has to be raised on the topping lift during furling/unfurling. Vang totally off.


A second thing that will help during furling is easing the leech line. When the cloth of any main enters the mast slot it has to be evenly tensioned. If your main is old and baggy then the cloth directly beside the line will be tight while that further forward will be loose. When that loose baggy cloth attempts to enter the mast it will scrunch up and jam the system.


A take up of the leech seams will solve that problem. It is common surgery for old, baggy mains.
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Old 11-05-2015, 09:21   #11
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Re: In mast roller issues

My Selden inmast furling is also binding up but I believe its the bearings that the shaft is rotating on both ends. What is the proper lube for these bearings ?
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Old 11-05-2015, 09:49   #12
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Re: In mast roller issues

We had a torrid time a couple of years back getting the main out but couldn't figure out why as it went back in fine. Eventually tracked the problem down to excessive friction, mostly due to a jammed wheel in the outhaul "loop". Whilst clearing this we also dropped the main to check the top furler was freely rotating and gave it a healthy dose of WD40 to clean it then greased the bearing races with "wet" lubricant (actually Teflon based mountain bike chain lube). WD 40 on all the pulleys and wheels every year and we've had no problems in or out.

So I would suggest a good place to start is bearings and pulley wheels and remove as much friction as possible. Then as another comment said check your outhaul sheet isn't to fat. Lastly double check the position of the boom to the mast as this can be critical to the ease of furling. We position our boom using the kicker (Selden Gas Kicker) with a big black dot to mark the ideal position.

Might be worth taking the sail down and checking it is not overly stretched or mis-shapen as any bunching of material will have a detrimental effect on furling performance. Depending on how much you have used the sail and in what conditions it is not inconceivable that you could need a new sail.

Hope that helps

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Old 11-05-2015, 10:06   #13
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Re: In mast roller issues

When designing the original Hood Sea Furl back in the 70s, we cut the sails so the boom would have an approximate 7 degree up angle, to prevent a buildup from the foot tape. The correct angle was the most critical part of smooth unfurling, followed by sail shape (relatively flat was best). The patented block arrangement with a dead end on the outhaul car, through a sheave in the clew and back through a single block on the outhaul car was developed to balance the sheeting angle on the boom for the mainsail.

If too much tension was required to unfurl, the internal stay would pull back against the mast slot and increase friction, so assisting with the furling line was helpful.
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Old 11-05-2015, 11:06   #14
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Re: In mast roller issues

We have a different brand in-mast furler, but had exactly the same problem...the M/S would "window-shade" on itself coming out, presenting multiple layers of sailcloth coming out of the slot and jambing. We replaced the M/S, thinking it was just bagged out. That helped, but didn't fix the problem completely. After some years just putting up with the issue, the sail jambed again, and when we tried to work it---the top swivel came apart and the whole sail came down!!! turned out the bearing in the upper swivel had been going bad for a long time, finally jambed, and unscrewed itself. We limped back in, got a rigger to figure out how to get access to it, replaced the bearing....and it's worked perfectly (not a single issue) ever since, some 3 years later!
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Old 11-05-2015, 13:08   #15
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Re: In mast roller issues

The first place I'd look is at the sail as it enters the mast when being furled. If the sail is starting to develope folds as it enters the mast slot then your main stretched, These folds build up the internal diameter and cause the sail to jam. Your sailmaker can easily rectify this. Take some pics of the sail, straight up the mast both when the sail is out (trimmed under load) and several more while it's being furled. The pics will help the sailmaker ID where he has to modify the sail to get rid of it's belly. Show him the pics before you take the sail off. Hope this helps.
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