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Old 17-06-2013, 08:36   #31
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Re: In-Mast Furling or Traditional Reefing

We have 'PROFURL' in boom, full battens, vang and just love the thing, mainsail shape is very good and one person can reef it between 1 and 100% simple as.

Now if it jammed (very unlikely) you can still bring it down BUT if an 'Inmast' system jams you get the knife out......

With electric winches my 59kg wife handles it easily.

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Old 17-06-2013, 08:37   #32
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Re: In-Mast Furling or Traditional Reefing

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If that's the case, it's been rigged wrong. A properly rigged Seldon system can be furled from the cockpit if the inhaul has properly been led aft. I've done it thousands of times without having to go forward and use a handle.
No I mean that the use of an endless line, tends to mitigate running it through blocks and deck organisers. Its also somewhat unnecessary, but it makes the selden system easier to fit to the mast profiles. As a consequence, I prefer the Sparcraft/Z-spars type.

Ive used many Selden systems, but It does require holding more lines then absolutely necessary.
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Old 17-06-2013, 08:44   #33
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Re: In-Mast Furling or Traditional Reefing

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Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
Now if it jammed (very unlikely) you can still bring it down BUT if an 'Inmast' system jams you get the knife out......
A case in point, regarding the nonsense that proliferates about in-mast furling these days.
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Old 17-06-2013, 08:50   #34
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Re: In-Mast Furling or Traditional Reefing

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Ive used many Selden systems, but It does require holding more lines then absolutely necessary.
There are only two lines: the outhaul and the inhaul. One need not handle a halyard, or lazyjacks, or multiple reefing lines, or sail gaskets....
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Old 17-06-2013, 08:51   #35
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Re: In-Mast Furling or Traditional Reefing

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We have 'PROFURL' in boom, full battens, vang and just love the thing, mainsail shape is very good and one person can reef it between 1 and 100% simple as.

Now if it jammed (very unlikely) you can still bring it down BUT if an 'Inmast' system jams you get the knife out......
Yes but two things

Firstly in-boom is very expensive and results in a large and often unwieldy boom, whose angle to the mast during furling is critically important

Secondly , the unwashed, tend to talk about in-mast jams when the sail is out, yet almost all jams in in-masts are unfurling not furling and almost all of them are caused by grinding in the sail without enough outhaul tension, resulting in either folds or a bulky furl jamming in the mast extrusion and refusing to come out . That is inconvenient but not dangerous.

Furthermore many of the issues and reputation of in-mast stem from the time when lots were offered as retro-fits, Today that market is thankfully almost gone.

dave
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Old 17-06-2013, 08:55   #36
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Re: In-Mast Furling or Traditional Reefing

We used a sailmaker in Split who looks after 100 or so boats, he despises in mast for the problems they cause from as you rightly say 'the unwashed'.

Yes 89deg is critical hence the vang.

Expensive for sure but my comment stands.

frank
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Old 17-06-2013, 09:03   #37
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Re: In-Mast Furling or Traditional Reefing

You will find frank , that in areas with alot of charter boats, in-mast gets a lot of flack. to the extent that many charter companies have moved away from them. This is because they get the unwashed, ie people with little experience, who think in-mast is easy , to unfurl pull this and to furl pull that. Yet people here who know what they are doing generally report themselves well pleased with their in-masts. many charter boats are now using rams horn single single line reefing , because its simple, but awkward.

In boom is very difficult to fit to smaller boats, results in complex furling mechanism that fit to the front of the mast and connected to a complex boom. Absolutely brilliant and for a boat like yours which is essentially main driven, the only practical way to have a furling main.

But I would dispute any suggestion that in-boom is superior to in-mast, it just has different failure modes.



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Old 17-06-2013, 09:05   #38
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Re: In-mast furling or traditional reefing

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Originally Posted by AiniA View Post
Jams don't happen if you know what you are doing and are careful. With the Hood, if a jam occurs there is a manual override, also you can lower the sail even if it is jammed.
How in the world does that work? I can't see how one can lower a pertly rolled up sail. Can you explain, please?

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Old 17-06-2013, 09:06   #39
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Re: In-Mast Furling or Traditional Reefing

Dave there are no battens in an 'in-mast' mainsail how could an 'in-mast' sail have better shape, all we lack is some roach.

Frank
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Old 17-06-2013, 09:12   #40
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Re: In-Mast Furling or Traditional Reefing

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Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
Dave there are no battens in an 'in-mast' mainsail how could an 'in-mast' sail have better shape, all we lack is some roach.

Frank
Hood Sails - Hood Vertical Batten Mainsail (VB-M) for In-Mast Furling

Cruising Rollaway Main | Doyle Sailmakers

Sail-World.com : In-mast Furling: The Answer to Underperformance
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Old 17-06-2013, 09:17   #41
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Re: In-Mast Furling or Traditional Reefing

So is 'Tape drive' now superior to solid battens? I can understand it in light airs where weight of batten is an issue but using the new cloths and battens i would take some convincing that 'tape drives' win through?

Frank
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Old 17-06-2013, 09:21   #42
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Re: In-Mast Furling or Traditional Reefing

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Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
Dave there are no battens in an 'in-mast' mainsail how could an 'in-mast' sail have better shape, all we lack is some roach.

Frank

Its more then possible to add roach to in-mast, There are a variety of measures including vertical battens, inflatable battens etc.

dave
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Old 17-06-2013, 09:22   #43
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Re: In-Mast Furling or Traditional Reefing

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Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
So is 'Tape drive' now superior to solid battens? I can understand it in light airs where weight of batten is an issue but using the new cloths and battens i would take some convincing that 'tape drives' win through?

Frank
do you mean UK sails Tape Drive, Thats a construction methodology , it doesn't replace battens.

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Old 17-06-2013, 09:30   #44
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Re: In-mast furling or traditional reefing

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Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
The expense and danger if the sail jams automatically cancels out in mast furling for me.

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That's it. Mast roller furling is great, right up to the point where it jams in a storm, and then it is the worst thing imaginable.
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Old 17-06-2013, 09:32   #45
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Re: In-mast furling or traditional reefing

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That's it. Mast roller furling is great, right up to the point where it jams in a storm, and then it is the worst thing imaginable.

or a fully battened sails halyard gets stuck in the crane.

all these systems have failure modes. and nothing that cant be fixed with a knife!!!


like I said, in-masts fail to unfurl not furl, I mean if the sail is unfurled and you cant furl it, you can always drop the halyard.
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