in-mar furling vs traditional mast

[minaret]

As for weight aloft increasing roll at anchor, can anyone remind me why square riggers caught for long periods in the doldrums used to hoist weight aloft to damp the roll?

[Sailor Doug]

For opposite reason that boats that loose their mast roll like a pig.


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[minaret]

Originally Posted by Sailor Doug

For opposite reason that boats that loose their mast roll like a pig.


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I believe it's called "physics"!

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Juho

The old around-the-boom system had a proper rolling boom, and sail wrapped around the boom (not inside it).

Remember them well.. they were crap

[Harvester 1]

If cruising go for in mast furling! Because you are with jusr two.
Ylu will not loose on cruising. You will in a regatta because you may have a lower upwind angle. Well adjust your destination to the wind.

DO NOT take verical battenns. They will kill you reefing system.

But what to look for else: :
Get a good main sail without battens especoally measured to you boat (just did; makes all the difference)
Adjust the mast to almost straight. Do not bent (just a little for the tension)
Use your outhauler all the time; use an index to remember how much

compensate:
take a deep keel (for upwind angle)
double forestay
-one for a high aspect self tacking
-fwd one for a large genua
if the latter is mot there get yourself a moderate furling Code 0; strong enough that you may set it in the harbour and may let it stay if the wind get stronger.

Just remember:
you will try to set to sea below 25knt wind preferable 15-20. So you will always encounter spots passing with no wind at all.
HOWEVER, once in a while you have been optimistic about the predictions and have to survive 30+ maybe 40 knts. Then you will love that you can reef 80% of your main and half of your HA and see how your boat will keep running of the waves.
Then you want things easy if you sail short handed. That is when you will be left alone outside.

Since without battens and mast set to the sail it now always works properly, always.

(Quite many furling masts are set up like a non-furling mast and that is really wrong).

Cor
Harmony 42

[donradcliffe]

I'm with Uncivilized and Boatie--I don't like in mast furling. I watched a 50 ft Swan sail into Isla Mujeres with a in-mast furling main that was jammed in 15 knots of wind. They ended up anchoring, calling for help, and 6 guys took over two hours to solve the problem, including going up the mast. Not what I want to deal with offshore.

I subscribe to the B423 owners group and conversations on mainsail furling problems (both furling and unfurling) are a regular event.

The other down-side of the furling mast is the howling coming from the bloody things in marinas.

[David B]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

I'm with Uncivilized and Boatie--I don't like in mast furling. I watched a 50 ft Swan sail into Isla Mujeres with a in-mast furling main that was jammed in 15 knots of wind. They ended up anchoring, calling for help, and 6 guys took over two hours to solve the problem, including going up the mast. Not what I want to deal with offshore.

I subscribe to the B423 owners group and conversations on mainsail furling problems (both furling and unfurling) are a regular event.

The other down-side of the furling mast is the howling coming from the bloody things in marinas.

How old was the Swan?
What system did they use?
Did the crew cock it up with a loose furl?
Howling??? (ours doesn't, and we have seen 60+ knots in the marina at times)

[Jim Cate]

Howling??? (ours doesn't, and we have seen 60+ knots in the marina at times)

David, yours may not howl, but many do, and it can be REALLY loud and annoying. Makes the music of slapping halyards seem very nice indeed! The incidence of howling likely depends on the exact angle at which the wind crosses the mast slot; perhaps that situation never occurs in your case. And I'm sure that there are differences between different mast shapes as well.

There are clever little baffles that one can hoist up the slot with a spare halyard, and these seem to quell the banshee... should be required by intergalactic law IMO!

Cheers,

Jim

[David B]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

David, yours may not howl, but many do, and it can be REALLY loud and annoying. Makes the music of slapping halyards seem very nice indeed! The incidence of howling likely depends on the exact angle at which the wind crosses the mast slot; perhaps that situation never occurs in your case. And I'm sure that there are differences between different mast shapes as well.

There are clever little baffles that one can hoist up the slot with a spare halyard, and these seem to quell the banshee... should be required by intergalactic law IMO!

Cheers,

Jim

Thanks Jim,

Must be the design of the mast profile then (ours is late model Selden).
Thankful we do not have the problem by the sound of it !

[hoppy]

If you have a roller main and want to annoy you neighbours, just take the sail off.

And if you have a charter fleet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BfQcbrWqLk

[David B]

Originally Posted by hoppy

If you have a roller main and want to annoy you neighbours, just take the sail off.

And if you have a charter fleet

Agree that's not nice at all.
Totally wrong way of doing it - shows they don't care about the boats in their fleet. Those profiles banging around inside the masts are doing damage.

We take the sails down each season and there is no noise. The shuttle goes about 50% up the mast and is tensioned off, so the profile is held tight against the inside of the mast.

Then the wire halyard is tensioned off away from the mast (another length of 8mm line back aft), so the remaining part from shuttle to the top cannot bang against the mast causing damage or noise.

All is then quiet. Sails are away out of harm, and the furling profile is locked up. As a note, we also stuff cheap sponges into any cavities in the boom or mast to prevent birds nesting while we are away.

[Juho]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

The other down-side of the furling mast is the howling coming from the bloody things in marinas.

I have never heard our furling mast howl. It's the other boats that howl. I haven't however made a comparative analysis on which ones they are. Maybe next summer.

I have thought that one reason why our furling mast doesn't howl is that it is full of soft sail when we are in the marina.

Does someone have a concrete example of a howling boat, and where that noise comes from in that particular boat?

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The statement should be properly qualified.

High end cruising boats (so excluding mass produced French and German jobs), made in the last 20 years (so excluding boats of earlier generations), and over 40 feet, are nearly 100% in mast furling, up here. That's a fact.

And even the French and German ones are 60% or 70% in mast furling, as sold in the U.K.

I discovered this, when I was shopping for a boat here. They just laughed at me, at Oyster, when I asked about slab reefing.



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I'm Very curious to see the numbers & statistics which might substantiate this. And also, why are production boats being excluded from this claim? Including the specifics on which ones, & why.

Plus, what makes a cruising boat "high end"? Or for that matter, a "crusing boat". As there are a lot of racer/cruisers that could fall into some grey area, in such a statement. And be included, or excluded based on who knows what, undefined characteristics.
So defining things, would definitely be helpful in adding credence to this.

As without specific parameters to define such statements, such a "net" can be very large, but also have a fair number of holes. Through which, a lot of boat designs could slip.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Juho

I have never heard our furling mast howl. It's the other boats that howl. I haven't however made a comparative analysis on which ones they are. Maybe next summer.

I have thought that one reason why our furling mast doesn't howl is that it is full of soft sail when we are in the marina.

Does someone have a concrete example of a howling boat, and where that noise comes from in that particular boat?

As usual, just do a search on the forum. Have posted pics of our anti-fluting device more than once. Basic gear for an in mast setup.


Size is a huge factor. Bigger rigs have a bigger slot. Mine is 80' long and very wide, will really scream with the wind from aft of the beam and no sail in the stick. Obviously not a problem under way, or for anyone polite enough to crank out a quick flute stopper.




http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ler-69347.html

[Juho]

Originally Posted by minaret

As usual, just do a search on the forum. Have posted pics of our anti-fluting device more than once. Basic gear for an in mast setup.


Size is a huge factor. Bigger rigs have a bigger slot. Mine is 80' long and very wide, will really scream with the wind from aft of the beam and no sail in the stick. Obviously not a problem under way, or for anyone polite enough to crank out a quick flute stopper.




http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ler-69347.html

Thanks for the information about the flute stopping devices.

Is there an assumption that behind that mail stream that it would be always or mostly the in-mast furling masts that make the noise? Would it be with and/or without the sail inside the mast?