Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 30-03-2016, 09:49   #61
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,199
Images: 52
Re: in-mar furling vs traditional mast

As for weight aloft increasing roll at anchor, can anyone remind me why square riggers caught for long periods in the doldrums used to hoist weight aloft to damp the roll?
__________________

__________________
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
minaret is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30-03-2016, 09:57   #62
Registered User
 
Sailor Doug's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Lake Erie
Boat: H36
Posts: 384
Re: in-mar furling vs traditional mast

For opposite reason that boats that loose their mast roll like a pig.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________

__________________
Sailor Doug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-03-2016, 10:00   #63
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,199
Images: 52
Re: in-mar furling vs traditional mast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Doug View Post
For opposite reason that boats that loose their mast roll like a pig.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum


I believe it's called "physics"!
__________________
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
minaret is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30-03-2016, 10:08   #64
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,189
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: in-mar furling vs traditional mast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juho View Post

The old around-the-boom system had a proper rolling boom, and sail wrapped around the boom (not inside it).
Remember them well.. they were crap
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30-03-2016, 16:21   #65
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 10
Re: in-mar furling vs traditional mast

If cruising go for in mast furling! Because you are with jusr two.
Ylu will not loose on cruising. You will in a regatta because you may have a lower upwind angle. Well adjust your destination to the wind.

DO NOT take verical battenns. They will kill you reefing system.

But what to look for else: :
Get a good main sail without battens especoally measured to you boat (just did; makes all the difference)
Adjust the mast to almost straight. Do not bent (just a little for the tension)
Use your outhauler all the time; use an index to remember how much

compensate:
take a deep keel (for upwind angle)
double forestay
-one for a high aspect self tacking
-fwd one for a large genua
if the latter is mot there get yourself a moderate furling Code 0; strong enough that you may set it in the harbour and may let it stay if the wind get stronger.

Just remember:
you will try to set to sea below 25knt wind preferable 15-20. So you will always encounter spots passing with no wind at all.
HOWEVER, once in a while you have been optimistic about the predictions and have to survive 30+ maybe 40 knts. Then you will love that you can reef 80% of your main and half of your HA and see how your boat will keep running of the waves.
Then you want things easy if you sail short handed. That is when you will be left alone outside.

Since without battens and mast set to the sail it now always works properly, always.

(Quite many furling masts are set up like a non-furling mast and that is really wrong).

Cor
Harmony 42
__________________
Harvester 1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-03-2016, 22:29   #66
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: Boatless Again
Posts: 4,310
Re: in-mar furling vs traditional mast

I'm with Uncivilized and Boatie--I don't like in mast furling. I watched a 50 ft Swan sail into Isla Mujeres with a in-mast furling main that was jammed in 15 knots of wind. They ended up anchoring, calling for help, and 6 guys took over two hours to solve the problem, including going up the mast. Not what I want to deal with offshore.

I subscribe to the B423 owners group and conversations on mainsail furling problems (both furling and unfurling) are a regular event.

The other down-side of the furling mast is the howling coming from the bloody things in marinas.
__________________
donradcliffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-03-2016, 00:27   #67
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Adelaide, South Australia, sailing in the Med.
Boat: Beneteau, Oceanis 50
Posts: 426
Re: in-mar furling vs traditional mast

Quote:
Originally Posted by donradcliffe View Post
I'm with Uncivilized and Boatie--I don't like in mast furling. I watched a 50 ft Swan sail into Isla Mujeres with a in-mast furling main that was jammed in 15 knots of wind. They ended up anchoring, calling for help, and 6 guys took over two hours to solve the problem, including going up the mast. Not what I want to deal with offshore.

I subscribe to the B423 owners group and conversations on mainsail furling problems (both furling and unfurling) are a regular event.

The other down-side of the furling mast is the howling coming from the bloody things in marinas.
How old was the Swan?
What system did they use?
Did the crew cock it up with a loose furl?
Howling??? (ours doesn't, and we have seen 60+ knots in the marina at times)
__________________
David B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-03-2016, 00:34   #68
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,440
Re: in-mar furling vs traditional mast

Quote:
Howling??? (ours doesn't, and we have seen 60+ knots in the marina at times)
David, yours may not howl, but many do, and it can be REALLY loud and annoying. Makes the music of slapping halyards seem very nice indeed! The incidence of howling likely depends on the exact angle at which the wind crosses the mast slot; perhaps that situation never occurs in your case. And I'm sure that there are differences between different mast shapes as well.

There are clever little baffles that one can hoist up the slot with a spare halyard, and these seem to quell the banshee... should be required by intergalactic law IMO!

Cheers,

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 31-03-2016, 01:26   #69
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Adelaide, South Australia, sailing in the Med.
Boat: Beneteau, Oceanis 50
Posts: 426
Re: in-mar furling vs traditional mast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
David, yours may not howl, but many do, and it can be REALLY loud and annoying. Makes the music of slapping halyards seem very nice indeed! The incidence of howling likely depends on the exact angle at which the wind crosses the mast slot; perhaps that situation never occurs in your case. And I'm sure that there are differences between different mast shapes as well.

There are clever little baffles that one can hoist up the slot with a spare halyard, and these seem to quell the banshee... should be required by intergalactic law IMO!

Cheers,

Jim
Thanks Jim,

Must be the design of the mast profile then (ours is late model Selden).
Thankful we do not have the problem by the sound of it !
__________________
David B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-03-2016, 01:36   #70
Registered User
 
hoppy's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 40
Posts: 2,842
Re: in-mar furling vs traditional mast

If you have a roller main and want to annoy you neighbours, just take the sail off.

And if you have a charter fleet

__________________
S/Y Jessabbé http://www.jessabbe.com/
hoppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-03-2016, 01:59   #71
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Adelaide, South Australia, sailing in the Med.
Boat: Beneteau, Oceanis 50
Posts: 426
Re: in-mar furling vs traditional mast

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
If you have a roller main and want to annoy you neighbours, just take the sail off.

And if you have a charter fleet

Agree that's not nice at all.
Totally wrong way of doing it - shows they don't care about the boats in their fleet. Those profiles banging around inside the masts are doing damage.

We take the sails down each season and there is no noise. The shuttle goes about 50% up the mast and is tensioned off, so the profile is held tight against the inside of the mast.

Then the wire halyard is tensioned off away from the mast (another length of 8mm line back aft), so the remaining part from shuttle to the top cannot bang against the mast causing damage or noise.

All is then quiet. Sails are away out of harm, and the furling profile is locked up. As a note, we also stuff cheap sponges into any cavities in the boom or mast to prevent birds nesting while we are away.
__________________
David B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-03-2016, 03:24   #72
Registered User
 
Juho's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Finland
Boat: Nauticat 32
Posts: 716
Re: in-mar furling vs traditional mast

Quote:
Originally Posted by donradcliffe View Post
The other down-side of the furling mast is the howling coming from the bloody things in marinas.
I have never heard our furling mast howl. It's the other boats that howl. I haven't however made a comparative analysis on which ones they are. Maybe next summer.

I have thought that one reason why our furling mast doesn't howl is that it is full of soft sail when we are in the marina.

Does someone have a concrete example of a howling boat, and where that noise comes from in that particular boat?
__________________
Juho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-03-2016, 03:45   #73
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
Re: in-mar furling vs traditional mast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
The statement should be properly qualified.

High end cruising boats (so excluding mass produced French and German jobs), made in the last 20 years (so excluding boats of earlier generations), and over 40 feet, are nearly 100% in mast furling, up here. That's a fact.

And even the French and German ones are 60% or 70% in mast furling, as sold in the U.K.

I discovered this, when I was shopping for a boat here. They just laughed at me, at Oyster, when I asked about slab reefing.



Sent from my D6633 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
I'm Very curious to see the numbers & statistics which might substantiate this. And also, why are production boats being excluded from this claim? Including the specifics on which ones, & why.

Plus, what makes a cruising boat "high end"? Or for that matter, a "crusing boat". As there are a lot of racer/cruisers that could fall into some grey area, in such a statement. And be included, or excluded based on who knows what, undefined characteristics.
So defining things, would definitely be helpful in adding credence to this.

As without specific parameters to define such statements, such a "net" can be very large, but also have a fair number of holes. Through which, a lot of boat designs could slip.
__________________

The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
UNCIVILIZED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-03-2016, 07:52   #74
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,199
Images: 52
Re: in-mar furling vs traditional mast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juho View Post
I have never heard our furling mast howl. It's the other boats that howl. I haven't however made a comparative analysis on which ones they are. Maybe next summer.

I have thought that one reason why our furling mast doesn't howl is that it is full of soft sail when we are in the marina.

Does someone have a concrete example of a howling boat, and where that noise comes from in that particular boat?


As usual, just do a search on the forum. Have posted pics of our anti-fluting device more than once. Basic gear for an in mast setup.


Size is a huge factor. Bigger rigs have a bigger slot. Mine is 80' long and very wide, will really scream with the wind from aft of the beam and no sail in the stick. Obviously not a problem under way, or for anyone polite enough to crank out a quick flute stopper.




Flute Stopper for Hood StoWay In-Mast Furler
__________________
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
minaret is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 31-03-2016, 08:28   #75
Registered User
 
Juho's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Finland
Boat: Nauticat 32
Posts: 716
Re: in-mar furling vs traditional mast

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
As usual, just do a search on the forum. Have posted pics of our anti-fluting device more than once. Basic gear for an in mast setup.


Size is a huge factor. Bigger rigs have a bigger slot. Mine is 80' long and very wide, will really scream with the wind from aft of the beam and no sail in the stick. Obviously not a problem under way, or for anyone polite enough to crank out a quick flute stopper.




Flute Stopper for Hood StoWay In-Mast Furler
Thanks for the information about the flute stopping devices.

Is there an assumption that behind that mail stream that it would be always or mostly the in-mast furling masts that make the noise? Would it be with and/or without the sail inside the mast?
__________________

__________________
Juho is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
furling, mast

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: Roller furling for head sail and roller furling for main cealpotts Classifieds Archive 0 20-09-2013 08:55
In-Mast Furling or Traditional Reefing Maartster Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 63 17-08-2013 01:00
Furling Mast / Mast Steps Thames 4 Blood Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 3 07-03-2013 18:45
Want To Buy: In-Mast-Furling Mast Jolly Roger Classifieds Archive 1 26-01-2011 06:05
Any Other Families Planning to Be in the Grenadines in Jan / Feb / Mar ? scove Families, Kids and Pets Afloat 1 04-09-2009 06:24



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:04.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.