I need one bit of help for the cruising spinaker

[Playseabeau]

Greatketch

My wife and I flew our cruising spinaker for the first time last weekend. All the rigging was set up properly, (when we purchased the boat, a 1980 Seidlemann 29.9) except there was no sock for the shute. We built one and it did make raising and lowering as well as deploying the sail much easier than expected. That's not the question.

All went beautifully in deploying, and we played aroun in 3 to 8 knot winds seeing how close to the wind, (about 35 degrees) to downwind. It looked and performed smoothly. . . until we went to jibe. As the instructions said, we released the sheet allowing the sail to flow in front of the bow, and began to pull in on the previously lazy sheet. The sail came around smoothly, and the now lazy sheet promptly developed several feet of slack, dropped into the water in front of the boat which promptly ran over the sheet, (Note: clew of sail on the port, current lazy sheet run from the block at the starbord stern. . . sheet slack and almost perpendicular to the line of the boat). Withe the speed of the boat and the angle of the keel, the line easily rose to the surface between the keel and the rudder where it promptly lodged between the bottom of the boat and the rudder. (By the grace of Neptune, and a feathering prop, it did not foul the screw.) We did withdraw the line by angleing the rudder to release the jambed line, but this ended our afternoon of spinaker experimentation.

So here is the question: How does one jibe the cruising spinaker WITHOUT producing slack in the sheet and running over it without having one of the (usually only 2) crew going forward to lay the line by hand over the anchor pulpit. If anybody has run into this problem before, let me know (so I don't feel singularly dumb) and please include how you solved this problem.

Thanks

Playseabeau

[Ex-Calif]

Hi Playseabeau - Welcome to cruisers forum. I gave your post it's own thread to get better visibility.

If I understand your post correctly it sounds like all you need are longer sheets. When you were first sheeted in how much tail did the lazy sheet have?

You need enough so that the sail can fly around the front and not pull out of the stern block before it is sheeted on the new side.

[Playseabeau]

Thanks for the answer

I din't think longer sheets are the answer. The newly formed lazy sheet never left the block (starbord side) when the sail was pulled to the Port side . there are about seventy feet of sheet on each side, (easier to trim if needed, than add a few feet.)

That is over twice the boat length for each sheet. The problem was that the tack went to the oposite side to the boat, as it was intended, as the block for the lazy sheet. How do you keep the lazy sheet from hitting the water, and by becomming slack, passing under the boat? In other words, how do you keep the lazy sheet out of the wqater?

Playseabeau

[Ex-Calif]

Oh - I get it now.

Now that's a good question. We've always had someone on each line.

It may also require paying out the old sheet as it passes the bow and then temporarily cleating it before crossing and hauling the new sheet. In other words don't give it any more line than it needs.

I wonder if a twing around mid ship would help.

[Playseabeau]

ExCalif

Thanks again for the reply.

I think that next try will be done very slowly to avoid the problem repeat. I can't believe that we are the only people to experience this problem, unless we did something wrong (like not letting the sheet gather any slack) in the jibe.

Any other thoughts will be welcome

Playseabeau

[Hud3]

Dan has the right answer. You just need to pay out the "new" lazy sheet so that it works it's way around the bow in the air, not in the water. A little practice and it will come easily.

[svHyLyte]

In very light winds--i.e. 10 knts apparent or less--you do not need to do an outside jibe. In such circumstances the lazy sheet should be led in front of the headstay but behind the luff of the asym. When you're ready to jib, ease the working sheet forward until the clew is about even with the forestay while taking up on the lee sheet, head off and gybe the main and then haul in on the, formerly, lazy sheet while bringing the boat up. Haul the new working sheet in smartly while turning the boat easily to avoid a wrap.

In heavier winds--11 to 20 knt--the outside jibe is preferred but one must keep steady tension on the formerly working sheet until the sail is reset to prevent it falling over the bow as yours did. In such circumstances it may be preferable to "bag" the sail and then reset on the opposit jibe.

Gary Jobson wrote a very good discussion of the foregoing in the May 2008 edition of Cruising World.

Added items: (a) If you've jibed the asym and not returned to your original jibe when you are ready to bag the sail, do not foreget to jibe the downhaul on the sock--i.e. pass it around the front the of forestay--or you will find the forestay will not allow you to haul down the sock from other than the prow; (b) one may find it helpful to pass the control line to the sock through a snatch-block affixed to a point near the center of the foredeck. By so doing, one can haul up on the line-rather than down-which stabilizes one's stance and in heavier conditions allow one to lean against the mast for added stability when raising or lowering the sock; (c) adding a "tag line" with a loop on the end to the clew of the sail to which one affixes the sheets will make it easier to attach the sheets while the sail is bagged--without, the clew may be out of convenient reach within the bag;and, (d) a continuous sheet rather than two individual sheets requires less line and to some extent disallows more line to run out than necessary on the relieved sheet when doing an outside jibe.

FWIW...

s/v HyLyte

[svHyLyte]

And then there's how not to gybe a spinnaker:

YouTube - J105 North American's Bowman launched

[Ex-Calif]

Talk about out of control - Jeesh!

One thing I am learning with my racing is that the top boats seem to always be in control. You can't win if you are not skilled in the tasks. Blowing around (into) the mark out of control thinking that the 30 seconds or so it takes to stabilize the boat and crew will lose you the race is incorrect thinking.

[Cheechako]

one person steering, the other standing between the two winches and with one line on each winch, pay out one as you pull in the other. Pick the person who can rub their belly and pat their head at the same time.... it ain't easy.