Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-08-2016, 17:13   #1
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: [S]Hamble (Spring and Fall)[/S], Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 16,919
Hoyt Booms

If these are so great, then why are they not on every yacht?

I recently visited the KM Yachts yard in Holland, and had a look around the owner's personal yacht, which had one of these -- but actually -- it had a hydraulic vang on it.

The arguments seem overwhelming -- especially, the question of angle of attack. I'm now using a three-dimensional sheet lead system (designed and made by me, but shameless copied from a mini-transat boat) which gives me a little control over the inboard-outboard position of the sheet lead, and it is a revelation. It is no less effective as a sail control then the traveler is for the main.

So why not a Hoyt boom? At least, one with a vang of some kind, not the ghastly fixed ones like we see on some boats from a recently bankrupted builder. This takes that -- inboard-outboard control of sheeting angle -- to a completely different level. The clew can be put right out far over the rail, in fact.

For running, you can spread the canvas out to the wind just like a square-rigger.

What's the catch? There must be one. I'm not seeing it, however.
__________________

__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2016, 17:19   #2
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 12,743
Re: Hoyt Booms

I don't understand, what do you mean by fixed?


Sent from my iPad Pro using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________

__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2016, 17:29   #3
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 15,539
Re: Hoyt Booms

Only till you get hit by one.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2016, 17:30   #4
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: [S]Hamble (Spring and Fall)[/S], Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 16,919
Re: Hoyt Booms

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I don't understand, what do you mean by fixed?
The boom angle is fixed. As in the original Hoyt patent. The Hoyt Boom was originally designed that way.
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2016, 18:15   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lewes De
Boat: C & C 25 MK1
Posts: 4
Re: Hoyt Booms

They are good for day sailing pretty hard to put a dinghy on deck for cruising. you also can't use a big genoa
__________________
Jim_W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2016, 05:01   #6
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 12,743
Re: Hoyt Booms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
The boom angle is fixed. As in the original Hoyt patent. The Hoyt Boom was originally designed that way.

Mine isn't and came that way Circa 1987. If for example I wanted to put a dinghy on deck all I have to do is remove the pin that attaches the sheet lines and hoist up the lanyard, the pole will lay right alongside of the Staysail. It has a simple bolt and a clamp that it articulates on. Now the newer ones do have that bend in them and appear to be fixed, I have always wondered why.

But for running down wind I'm seriously considering twin headsails, as opposed to running the Staysail out on its boom, boom is of course a pole so to speak, but I think the larger headsail would give more drive.

But then I am still learning, some have removed the boom as it's easy to remove, but I keep thinking, if there is no advantage, then why was it there?


Sent from my iPad Pro using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2016, 05:03   #7
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 12,743
Re: Hoyt Booms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
The boom angle is fixed. As in the original Hoyt patent. The Hoyt Boom was originally designed that way.

Mine isn't and came that way Circa 1987. If for example I wanted to put a dinghy on deck all I have to do is remove the pin that attaches the sheet lines and hoist up the lanyard, the pole will lay right alongside of the Staysail. It has a simple bolt and a clamp that it articulates on. Now the newer ones do have that bend in them and appear to be fixed, I have always wondered why.

But for running down wind I'm seriously considering twin headsails, as opposed to running the Staysail out on its boom, boom is of course a pole so to speak, but I think the larger headsail would give more drive.

But then I am still learning, some have removed the boom as it's easy to remove, but I keep thinking, if there is no advantage, then why was it there?


Sent from my iPad Pro using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2016, 05:06   #8
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 12,743
Hoyt Booms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_W View Post
They are good for day sailing pretty hard to put a dinghy on deck for cruising. you also can't use a big genoa

I run a 135% Genoa, largest I can without new tracks, without any issue, to carry a dinghy on deck takes about 1 min to pull the pin and raise the pole, but you do then lose use of the Staysail, but then your just a Sloop, nothing much wrong with that?


Sent from my iPad Pro using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2016, 06:11   #9
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40
Posts: 2,382
Images: 7
Re: Hoyt Booms

I'm confused. I know what a Hoyt boom is, and I know what a club footed sail is. It seems to me part of the definition of a Hoyt boom is that it doesn't require a vang.

Why is what you described not a club foot with a vang added?
__________________
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2016, 06:22   #10
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: [S]Hamble (Spring and Fall)[/S], Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 16,919
Re: Hoyt Booms

Quote:
Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
I'm confused. I know what a Hoyt boom is, and I know what a club footed sail is. It seems to me part of the definition of a Hoyt boom is that it doesn't require a vang.

Why is what you described not a club foot with a vang added?
It may very well be. I will be glad to be corrected on the terminology, if there are better or more precise terms. The design of this boat called it a "Hoyt boom", but maybe it would really be better just to call it a "jib boom", since it is different from the Hoyt design in some ways.
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2016, 06:32   #11
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 12,743
Re: Hoyt Booms

Read post #7 here, is this similar to what your considering?

staysail boom
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2016, 06:49   #12
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 12,743
Re: Hoyt Booms

I found an image on the net, not my boat and I assume it's OK to post as it has the copyright on it.
But anyway as you can see the pole is straight, no curve and the part that attaches to deck has a bolt that the pole pivots on, the pole can be at any angle even straight up alongside of the furled staysail. This is just like mine, and it has the Hoyt Logo on it, so I assume it is a Hoyt boom
The funny bend and fixed angle came later I believe.
Remove that one bolt and the one pin at the other end of the pole, and the pole is removed. Or if you like pull the pin and run the pole straight up alongside of the furled Staysail
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2016, 06:52   #13
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40
Posts: 2,382
Images: 7
Re: Hoyt Booms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
It may very well be. I will be glad to be corrected on the terminology, if there are better or more precise terms. The design of this boat called it a "Hoyt boom", but maybe it would really be better just to call it a "jib boom", since it is different from the Hoyt design in some ways.
I see some people on the web are calling a club foot a jib boom, but traditionally that term already has been taken as an extension to the bowsprit. Or is it so obsolete that folks started using it for something different?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jibboom

I've sailed on a friend's CT 41 that had been modified with a square course and a square topsail on the main mast, and had 3 jibs, the outermost was tacked on the end of a jibboom (traditional usage of word, as in wiki linked.)
__________________
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2016, 07:12   #14
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40
Posts: 2,382
Images: 7
Re: Hoyt Booms

He patented this idea in 1995.
Jib Boom Data Sheet
John G. Hoyt Inventions, Patents and Patent Applications - Justia Patents Search

Island Packet included the "self vanging" Hoyt boom in its 320 as described in a 1998 article
Island Packet 320

Is what you're talking about older or newer than that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I found an image on the net, not my boat and I assume it's OK to post as it has the copyright on it.
But anyway as you can see the pole is straight, no curve and the part that attaches to deck has a bolt that the pole pivots on, the pole can be at any angle even straight up alongside of the furled staysail. This is just like mine, and it has the Hoyt Logo on it, so I assume it is a Hoyt boom
The funny bend and fixed angle came later I believe.
Remove that one bolt and the one pin at the other end of the pole, and the pole is removed. Or if you like pull the pin and run the pole straight up alongside of the furled Staysail
__________________
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2016, 07:14   #15
Senior Cruiser
 
Kenomac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Mediterranean
Boat: Oyster 53 Cutter
Posts: 6,294
Re: Hoyt Booms

I could never work on our cutter, either the staysail will be in the way or the inner-forestay. The jibs would need to be way too small.
__________________

__________________
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: Hoyt Jib Boom olivertwist Classifieds Archive 0 29-07-2011 18:27
Roller Furling Booms Redshift Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 15 20-07-2011 08:37
Pocket Booms ? Yachts66 Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 12 27-02-2010 10:55
Booms, Halyards and Such... Yachts66 Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 5 10-02-2010 22:10
Masts and booms cheap! Trecksail Construction, Maintenance & Refit 1 07-02-2005 17:17


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:53.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.