Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-01-2016, 08:58   #31
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 49
Re: How to hoist a courtesy flag

I may be able to answer with some authority since I am from Europe.

I hoist my flags the traditional way, with sheet bends. The flag line goes to the loop with a sheet bend and the tail goes to the next flag, or to the flag line, again with a sheet bend. It is quick, cheap and easy and requires no iron works.

Sheet bend: Through, around and under.

We do not fly the European rag. It is still *not* a Nation Flag, and it never will be, if I have anything to say about it. As a courtesy flag we fly the the Naval Ensign of the Hosting Nation (E.G. the Red Ensign in England).

We fly the courtesy flag from the second most important location on our boat, usually the SB shroud at spreader height, the most important location is reserved for the Boats own National Flag.

The most important location is the location closest to the Skipper (the location from where the rudder is controlled): The top of the (mizzen-) mast or if that is taken (by a Wind Burgee or indicator) the stern. Note that a courtesy flag should move to the stern if the boats own flag is flown from the mast top.

We leave the Courtesy flag flying during the night whereas we drop in our own flag at sunset when we are moored or at anchor. It is a signal that the Skipper and crew are asleep or otherwise occupied, and don't like to entertain visitors. We do not visit a boat in the morning until the skipper hoist his flag. And if he forgets, we do not speak to him until he does ;-)
__________________

__________________
Bor the Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2016, 09:13   #32
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Atlantic ICW 29N/81W
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 36CC, now sold
Posts: 817
Re: How to hoist a courtesy flag

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
i fly only one flag at a time, if that. i tie it on, and raise. then wind blows it away, piece by piece. .
A Dutch skipper once smugly told me his national flag (and also ensign) had horizontal stripes unlike the French one with vertical ones of same colours. THe Dutch one wears out leaving the remainder still correct unlike the French one where the colours vanish one by one. Same difference with Belgian and German flags, the German being the long lasting one in that case
__________________

__________________
Robin3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2016, 09:15   #33
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Ontario
Boat: Douglas 32 Mk II
Posts: 1,923
Re: How to hoist a courtesy flag

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve77 View Post
I could understand it if there were eyes at the top AND the bottom. And if folks are tying bowlines in the bottom to make the loop, then it just makes me wonder why they don't just sew two eyes in the flag to start with.

It's the fact that there is an eye at the top and a length of line at the bottom that confuses me. Or maybe I'm just overthinking it...

Cheers!

Steve
Provides a "This End Up" solution.
__________________
ramblinrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2016, 10:07   #34
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,105
Re: How to hoist a courtesy flag

A simple grommet kit will solve your problem. Europeans tend to run up lots of flags:Country, yacht club, yacht associations, royal clubs, diplomatic rank(if any), and so forth. Back in the olden days, not uncommon to see five or more flags in a vertical line flapping away. A copy of Chapman's was essential to figure out what they were about. Saw similar situations over here in the land of the taxed. Yacht club burgee, power squadron, CCA, and CGA all hanging in the wind, one below the other. We tended to avoid all but courtesy flags, especially when visiting other countries.
We found out the hard way, that if you are flying anything but a courtesy or the skull and crossbones, you can wind up with a lot of "friends" who somehow are stranded in foreign ports and really need some money or a lift. Evidently half the world belongs to the NYYC. Thus the decision of no flags. In Egypt we flew the confederate flag sometimes to avoid being targeted. Other times we flew the Hawaiian flag that really confused folks. It works in war and works in peacetime cruising.
The confederate flag by the way caused a lot of cheering among the offshore oil rigs. Evidently lots of southerners work those rigs. This back in the 1980s.
__________________
reed1v is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2016, 13:07   #35
Registered User
 
Chalifour's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Marmaris Turkey
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Odyssey DS43
Posts: 77
Re: How to hoist a courtesy flag

The eye at the top is used to tie the courtesy flag halyard with a bowline and the line at the button is used to add another flag such as the Yellow flag when you enter a new country and require custom procedures. You use the upper flag lower line to perform a bowline knot through the lower flag. The lowest flag is then tied to the lower halyard with a reef knot. Bingo!
__________________
Chalifour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2016, 14:35   #36
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,169
Re: How to hoist a courtesy flag

FourWinds #15 has nearly got it.

The convention goes back to signal flags that needed to be made up in multi-flag "hoists". Eye at the top, tail at the bottom of each flag meant that they could be strung together using the tails to make a double sheet bend with the eye of the flag below. The bottom flag's tail makes a double sheet bend in the nether part of the halyard that has an eye, the eye at the top of the top flag in the hoist takes a double sheet bend from the upper part of the halyard that is but a tail. Tension is furnished by cleating the bight of the halyard.

Because I'm monocular, in TrentePieds bungee cords and cordage with hardware affixed to the end is streng verboten. Can't afford to take a chance on unnecessary clobber that could blind me. I'll stick with soft cringles and tails. It's not hard to master the necessary knots. Tied with one hand. In the dark. Under water :-)

Orientation is facilitated as FourWinds sez, but no signal flag can be confused with another by being upside down. Thus no danger of misinterpretation, merely a possibility of embarrassment :-)

A number of national flags could be hoisted "upside down" by the unwary, e.g. Dutch, German, Indian, Russian. The Scowegian flags are symmetrical up-n-down so you'd never notice if they were "upside down". It used to be that a national flag hoisted upside down was an accepted and recognized distress signal. I dare say that that convention went out when the 150 buck VHF radio came in :-)

TrentePieds.
__________________
TrentePieds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2016, 14:45   #37
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,105
Re: How to hoist a courtesy flag

Trente, an upside down flag also means surrender. You might be glad to know the upside down flag is still in use for signalling for help even in these modern ages. My grandson's frigate was on patrol off east Africa last year and came across the upside down flag on an American cruising yacht. Couple's entire electrical system went down after a lightening bolt blew every electronic device out of service. They did not want to use flairs in case pirates were nearby. When they saw the American frigate, they hoisted the stars and strips upside down to get attention. They got attention.
__________________
reed1v is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2016, 15:06   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 49
Re: How to hoist a courtesy flag

@Reed1V:
I was taught to tie a knot in the flag as a sign of distress. And if the flag is too small, a bit of rope, a piece of bungee cord or a ty-wrap can be used to tie the flag together in the middle.

It seems a more effective way to call for help since many out there wouldn't know how my Flag is supposed to look. When it is upside down my flag becomes a Serbian Flag.
__________________
Bor the Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2016, 17:47   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,105
Re: How to hoist a courtesy flag

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bor the Wolf View Post
@Reed1V:
I was taught to tie a knot in the flag as a sign of distress. And if the flag is too small, a bit of rope, a piece of bungee cord or a ty-wrap can be used to tie the flag together in the middle.

It seems a more effective way to call for help since many out there wouldn't know how my Flag is supposed to look. When it is upside down my flag becomes a Serbian Flag.
Thanks. Did not know that. Good point.
__________________
reed1v is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2016, 19:37   #40
Registered User
 
Dreeemboat's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Boat: Mariner 30
Posts: 2
Re: How to hoist a courtesy flag

Agree with Four Winds, eye at the top avoids Flag being up-side down.
__________________
Dreeemboat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2016, 20:09   #41
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,169
Re: How to hoist a courtesy flag

@Reed1v

Hold Glory hupside down??? I can hardly credit it :-0)! Good job there was a frigate nearby. I have hopes that our new Kinaidian govt. will bring the RCN back to at least a semblance of what it once was.

You've prolly already twigged to my dislike for "modern" gizzmos such as VHF. Of course I do use them for convenience's sake, but I've something of a fetish for keeping the old skills and traditions alive. When the fit hits the shan, as it will, those of us who still have the old skills will at least have half a chance :-)

Venceremos!

TrentePieds
__________________
TrentePieds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2016, 20:10   #42
Sponsoring Vendor
 
HopCar's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Miami Florida
Boat: Ellis Flybridge 28
Posts: 3,160
Re: How to hoist a courtesy flag

I buy Annin flags to sell in my store. When I order courtesy flags or signal flags I have a choice of ordering them Head and Grommet or Rope and Toggle.

Head and Grommet means the hoist of the flag is reinforced with canvas and grommets installed.

Rope and Toggle means that a rope is sewn into the hoist with a loop in one end of the rope and a wooden toggle at the other end. This allows you to quickly string together a series of flags.

I wonder if the OP's flag originally had a toggle on the end opposite the loop?
__________________
Hopkins-Carter Marine Supplies & Fishing Tackle
What You Need, at the Price You Want...with Service!
HopCar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2016, 23:03   #43
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Boat in Turkey, Beach cat in Israel
Boat: Lagoon 400 & Nacra 6.0 beach cat
Posts: 627
Re: How to hoist a courtesy flag

Quote:
Originally Posted by PangurBan View Post
On the subject of ensigns and courtesy flags, has anyone ever seen the European Union flag used?


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
I have used it during a trip from Atlantic France to Israel as a substitute for the national flags along the way.
__________________
meirriba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2016, 01:53   #44
Moderator
 
carstenb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3
Posts: 4,937
Images: 1
Re: How to hoist a courtesy flag

Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
I buy Annin flags to sell in my store. When I order courtesy flags or signal flags I have a choice of ordering them Head and Grommet or Rope and Toggle.

Head and Grommet means the hoist of the flag is reinforced with canvas and grommets installed.

Rope and Toggle means that a rope is sewn into the hoist with a loop in one end of the rope and a wooden toggle at the other end. This allows you to quickly string together a series of flags.

I wonder if the OP's flag originally had a toggle on the end opposite the loop?
They are supposed to have a toggle and indeed the reason for the toggle is to make it easier to make a string of flags. The toggle disappeared on all but the most expensive flags as a cost cutting measure (read sell cheaper and still make more profit)
__________________
I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted - Elmore Leonard
carstenb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2016, 07:13   #45
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Atlantic ICW 29N/81W
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 36CC, now sold
Posts: 817
Re: How to hoist a courtesy flag

Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
I buy Annin flags to sell in my store. When I order courtesy flags or signal flags I have a choice of ordering them Head and Grommet or Rope and Toggle.

Head and Grommet means the hoist of the flag is reinforced with canvas and grommets installed.

Rope and Toggle means that a rope is sewn into the hoist with a loop in one end of the rope and a wooden toggle at the other end. This allows you to quickly string together a series of flags.

I wonder if the OP's flag originally had a toggle on the end opposite the loop?

Rope with toggle top and loop bottom or even plain tail is traditional and what I've been used to , coming from the UK as I do, until moving to the USA and finding only probably Chinese or similar cheap labour markt made flags with cheapo brass grommets top and bottom.
__________________

__________________
Robin3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Right Courtesy Flag for UK Bill Balme Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 16 27-01-2016 06:32
UK courtesy flag Benz Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 19 07-03-2013 01:10
Courtesy Flag for San Blas ? gbanker Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 10 21-12-2011 14:19
Courtesy Flag - Caribbean Tafika2 Product or Service Reviews & Evaluations 20 21-04-2011 07:26
Courtesy Flag Size boat_alexandra Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 11 16-03-2011 20:37



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:13.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.