Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29-12-2006, 14:16   #1
Bob Norson
Guest

Posts: n/a
How to Eye Splice Double Braid Rope

One sailor that I know, now adds to his income by doing them around the marina from what I showed him.

Last year I did an article showing how to do it and was surprised at the response. Even life time sailors and multible boat builders typicaly did not know how. It's expensive and a hassel to have it done but so much better than a bow line.

I have improved on the original article by making the photos bigger and in colour and arranging the text better and now have on my web site... see How to Eye Splice double braid rope

I show two methods, one of my invention and a second that I worked out from cutting a pro job apart to see how they did it. My way is a little harder but may be stronger. Tell me what you think!

Cheers
__________________

__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2006, 14:24   #2
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chesapeake Region and Maine
Boat: 42' Bob Perry sloop
Posts: 4,038
Images: 4
Bob,

Thanks so much for doing this. The instructions and pix are very clear.

I'm one of those lifelong sailors who can't splice double braid (give me 3-strand anytime!). However, I'm ashamed of my inability to do so, and I'm going to try your methods and see what works best for me.

Thanks again,

Bill
S/V Born Free
__________________

__________________
btrayfors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2006, 17:19   #3
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nevada City. CA
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 3,745
Images: 9
Thanks Bob:

I like your system better. It makes more sense to me. I'll have to get some rope to practice on. Does anyone know if you can do an eye splice on old rope.
__________________
Fair Winds,

Charlie

Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
Joseph Conrad
Charlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2006, 17:26   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: F W B FL
Boat: caliber 40lrc Soul Searcher
Posts: 73
Images: 24
Charlie,
yes you can but Its a lot harder beause the cover is usually hard You might want to try soaking it in fabric softner overnight.
__________________
S\V Soul Sercher
Caliber 40LRC
soul searcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2006, 19:09   #5
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Gee thank's Bob, wait until I don't need spectra halyard's anymore.

good on ya.

Dave
__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising – It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2006, 22:45   #6
GreatKetch
Guest

Posts: n/a
I don't like that splice shown on that website.

In regular double braid line the core and the cover each take the load. The way that splice is done there is no way to be sure the two are balanced in length. Also, there is no bury of the core, it can slip. There is no threading to prevent low load creep.

It IS easier, and it does LOOK right when complete... but it is not the RIGHT way to do it.

I'll reconsider if someone can show me real strength testing for that kind of splice. In the meantime, I will continue to do it the way the rope manufacturers recommend, it's not THAT hard.

That splice might be ok for exotics where the cover is just for sun protection, but the recomended splicing procedures for those ropes are silple enough that there is no need for an un-proven alternative.

If I paid someone to splice my lines and he did it that way he would either redo it right, or give me my money back!

There are no shortcuts to the right way to do things!

Bill
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2006, 22:47   #7
Registered User
 
NoTies's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vanuatu
Boat: Whiting 29' extended "Nightcap"
Posts: 1,378
Images: 2
When I got talked into spectra for my halyards the chandler (who also does braid splicing for a fee) said that the commonly accepted method now is simply tying a hitch instead. Would a buntline hitch (and maybe sew the running part back onto the standing part) be any better or worse than a splice? I also understand the method for splicing spectra is different from other double braid. Not trying to avoid learning how to splice the stuff, just want to get things right first time with all the time & money I'm spending.
__________________
Pete

Positively, socially deviant.
NoTies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2006, 23:09   #8
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatKetch
I don't like that splice shown on that website.

There are no shortcuts to the right way to do things!

Bill
But there is more than one way to do thing's.

Dave
__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising – It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2006, 05:04   #9
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,577
Images: 240
As Dave says, "there’s always more than one way to do things" - often, the “right” way, and a multitude of “wrong”* ways.
* Perhaps, less right.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2006, 11:27   #10
GreatKetch
Guest

Posts: n/a
Something important to remember is that spectra is NOT double braid lines, and is not spliced the same way.

Same with lines a bit less high-tech like stay-set and stay-set X. They are all spliced differently.

With spectra lines the core carrries ALL the load and the cover is just there to keep the sun off and make it easier to handle. Real double braid has the core and the cover sharing the load. Keeping the two balanced in length is one of the important keys for getting a splice that is close to the full strength of the line.

If you do not understand the whys and wherefores of this, you should pay someone to splice your lines.

If you want a good explination fo the theory and instructions I like the books by Brion Toss, or you can go to the website of the maunfacturer of the line.

The comments about old line being hard to splice are TRUE. If you try to learn on old rope you will just get frustrated and become confinced that the whole exercise is some kind of magic.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2006, 14:00   #11
Bob Norson
Guest

Posts: n/a
Unbelievable! Great Ketch and Gord..

What I have done here is to provide two methods of splicing accesable to any sailor that has been worked out from observation and tested in real time. The methods I displayed have been examined by riggers in
Queensland that I contacted for feed back with not one negative. Slight variations of method and persoanl preferences but no one knocked either my method or the pro job I copied.

Great Ketch, if you have a different opinion, good onyer but to say this is "not right" is nonsense and your "facts" leave a lot to be desired!


"The way that splice is done there is no way to be sure the two are balanced in length. Also, there is no bury of the core, it can slip. There is no threading to prevent low load creep."

What!!! My method buries a huge length of core and weaves it in!!! You sure you got the right link or you just see what you want to see? I did a little google and was pleased to find a page of instruction. You won't like it though because the principal load is born by the cover buried but not woven, into the core, just like the pro method I covered, and there is deffinately no balance in length. Maybe you should get in touch with New England Ropes to set them straight. The core for the loop is buried along side the lower cover for just a couple inches... I would do it differently but I won't knock them, it's not my style.


New England Ropes Splicing Guide: Double Braid Eye splice

This forum used to be different.........

btrayfors, charlie, soul searcher, thanks and do give it a try and see for yourself, you might try the link above as well, ALL INFORMATION IS GOOD!
I haven't been able to find any info on splicing spectra, no one is talking if they know.
And Dave... look forward to your launch. I now have plans for the "eleven99" and will send you some pics of a new triple hulled power boat that surely will entertain.

Otherwise... I'm outa here.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2006, 14:47   #12
GreatKetch
Guest

Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Norson
"The way that splice is done there is no way to be sure the two are balanced in length. Also, there is no bury of the core, it can slip. There is no threading to prevent low load creep."
I mistyped. I should have said... there is no bury of the COVER. Sorry for the confusion. It seems to be too late to flag the the error in the original post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Norson
I show two methods, one of my invention and a second that I worked out from cutting a pro job apart to see how they did it. My way is a little harder but may be stronger. Tell me what you think!
Sorry if you're offended Bob. You asked what we thought. You were told. You say "thanks, mate" to those who said "good job" and "F--- off" to those who suggested that your approach was not technically correct. I would encourage anyone who really wants to understand rope splicing to get the book "The Rigger's Apprentice". It covers the theory as well as the practice.

New England Ropes approach is the correct one. One of the keys to keeping the cover and core balanced is to bury both. Also that slip knot tied several feet up from the splice is critical to keeping the both bearing the load. You will find the same construction, although with differnt technique at the Yale site:
Yale Cordage - Splicing Instructions

Instructions for splicing spectra core lines are right there at New England Ropes website. It is called the "core-to-core splice". Their T900 line is a Specra core line. Detailed instructions are here:
New England Ropes: Core-to-Core Eye Splice
Key difference between this and regular dacron double braid is that ALL the strength is in the core and the cover is not load bearing at all. I personnally find them much easier to splice.

I am not saying you are a bad person, just the the splice you showed is not appropriate for full strength in double braid line. If you read carefully, I suggested that it might be a good one for as a core to core splice. It is similar to a Brummell Splice used in single braid exotics. I am just not sure without actually testing it for breaking strength. That is how places like New England Ropes and Yale come up with splices. That information shouldn't be disregarded by sailors or riggers.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2006, 20:55   #13
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Well Bob's pissed off and rightly so.

As I said, there is more than one way to do thing's and just because it's not your way does'nt mean it's the wrong way, it's just another way that work's.

If that was the case we'd all be charging around in bloody dugout's still, 'cause there's only one way to build a boat, isn't there?

Maybe some of you need to think outside the square a bit and get your hand's dirty trying different way's of doing thing's. You might amaze yourselve's at the results, and might even come up with a better version of what you read in a book or pdf.

I hope Bob hasn't spat his dummy for good as he is a good source of information in the eastern cruising ground's down under, and seem's to be a pretty nice and knowledgable guy................for a seppo.

Have a Happy New Year guy's

Dave
__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising – It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2006, 21:12   #14
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nevada City. CA
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 3,745
Images: 9
I think Bob has a legitimate method for doing an Eye splice is it as strong as the splice recommended by the rope manufactures. ? No one will know w/o putting it thru the tests. Is it worth the $thousands it would cost to find out if it is as strong. Or maybe it is strong enough. I would bet it is stronger than a bowline on the end of the rope. Western Culture has gotten way to dependent on "certified" engineers and lost alot of practical knowledge. I can't tell you how many times I have gone back to an engineer after reviewing their work and pointing out the mistakes that they have made in there work or shown them how by making a change lots of $$$ could be saved and a stronger structure acheived. CYA seems to be the name of the game.

Well thats my rant.

Happy New Year
__________________
Fair Winds,

Charlie

Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
Joseph Conrad
Charlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2006, 22:02   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Seattle area (Bremerton)
Boat: C&C Landfall 39 center cockpit "Anahita"
Posts: 1,076
Images: 6
balanced eye splice

A good eye splice in double braid line is not only stronger than a bowline it is stronger than the line itself. When the core and cover bury is balanced the finished product essentially has a full strength line on each side of the eye. Tests show that the line will fail anywhere else but at the splice.

BTW a bowline may only result in a 60% rated line strength so comparing a good eye splice to a bowline is not very good bragging.

Although Bob's method looks to be great for not allowing any slip, Greatketch is correct in his analysis of the result not guaranteeing a balanced splice for equal line strength on each side of the eye. Such analysis does not mean that Bob's method is not as strong as a bowline, I'm sure it is, it merely does not guarantee that the result is maximally strong as well as slip resistant as the one sited in The Rigger's Apprentice, for example.
__________________

__________________
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
rope

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: 275' of 1" Double Braid Rode bottleinamessage Classifieds Archive 3 26-08-2010 05:24
Triple Braid Eye Splice daddle Anchoring & Mooring 1 20-03-2010 07:58
Double braid/chain splice david samuelson Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 3 05-08-2008 03:16
Rope to wire splice Setia Construction, Maintenance & Refit 10 26-10-2004 01:28



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:12.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.