Hi-Mod, Sta-Lok, or Norseman ?

[s/v Jedi]

CBurger,

I know that test and the supporting notes. The test doesn't name the other tested fittings and is for 3/16" wire only. The fittings you use are Danish, made by Blue Wave and imported by Suncor, at least that is what the test says.

I would not have taken the path you choose based upon just that test. I wouldn't even consider these fittings for my lifelines which is where they came from if I understand their history correctly.

I would like to say a big test with more fittings in more diameters (at least up to 12mm wire), where the test clearly mentions the brands and suppliers and list test-results/data and photo's for every fitting tested etc.

cheers,
Nick.

[cgaskell]

I recently re-rigged my boat with hi mods. All three of the mechanical fittings are very easy to master, but I decided on hi mod fittings because (since I was doing the job myself) they were easy to disassemble and reassemble. Sure enough, I had measured my inner forestay too long and had to undo the fitting and shorten it. I bought the wire and fittings from seco south in the tampa area of florida. They are associated with norseman and I had the opportunity to fit a norseman and stalok fitting to see which I prefered. Honestly, they are all very simple and very much within the reach of a do it yourselfer. I haven't had a rigger check my tensioning, but I shall probably make that investment before I go on an extended passage. I do not recommend suncor, though. they just don't convince my 'better' judgement.

[Lawrence]

Have you considered Kappel fittings; or poured sockets? Worked great for me at a fraction of the cost of Staylock.

[cburger]

As a follow up to this post I just re-rigged the boat and re-used most of the old Norseman fittings that where in great shape and found them very easy to install. I tried a couple of the Suncor fittings on the boomkin stays. I was speaking with an individual the other day that informed me that the Suncor fittings have to be disassembled at least every five years to replace the inner securing collar. I was wondering if any of the members had heard this about the Suncor's?

[Capt.Ron]

Originally Posted by Lawrence

Have you considered Kappel fittings; or poured sockets? Worked great for me at a fraction of the cost of Staylock.

Agree with Lawrence - poured sockets are an extermely strong, cheap and re-usable option that has worked great on my boat for over 15 years now.

[osirissail]

As a rigger for a number of years, I only used StayLoks. Norseman terminals do have a record of failures whereas Stayloks don't.
- - Another thing the little "cup" in the inside bottom of a StayLok is a patented feature and it allows the wires that bend over the bottom of the cone to remain in alignment rather than rotating or dragging when tightening as happens with Norseman.
- - However, I when it comes to turnbuckles I like Norseman better. Same with toggles and non-terminal fittings.
- - Problem with swags these days is there are so few shops that have the proper equipment to do a good quality rolling swag. And as the shops decreased in number the prices increased to a point where using StayLoks or Norseman terminals was more economical.

[roverhi]

There are two reasons to use swageless fittings. First, they are easy for almost any clutz to do. Second, they aren't swages.

I rigged our Westsail with absolutely no prior experience in a little over a day using Norsemans. That's a lot of fittings on W32 as you've got boomkin stays, whisker stays and bobstay on the bowsprit and the staysail stay over and above the stays/shrouds on a typical sloop. The first fittings took a bit of time because I was worried about a wire strand getting in the groove of the cone. It's a pretty needless worry as I've never had a wire fall into the groove in doing over 50 Norseman/StaLoks. Have never had a problem with any of the wires I've fitted the swageless terminals and have sailed a lot miles on them.

FWIW, the Norsemen terminals tested by Practical Sailor were old style terminals. Don't know when they changed them but definitely more than 10 years ago. The new terminals don't have a lock nut and use a different cone than the older version.

As far as unlaying the wire and fitting the cone, it's not a big thing. Just unlay the outer wires back a few inches, slip the cone on and relay the wire around the cone. If you are so worried about the skill involved that you won't even try these terminals, you probably don't have the skill to own a boat without hiring out 100% of the maintenance and hiring a captain. You can also reuse the terminals pretty much indefinitely. Don't know what alloy they use in the swageless terminals, but it holds up extremely well in the salty tropics where swages have a way too short life. The Norsemans I installed on our Westsail almost 40 years ago are still on the boat though with the third set of wires. That boat has been sailed long and far with three cruises to SoPac, a hurricane, and more than 5 years of daily use doing sunset cruises.

Swages are SCARY. Someone did a test of old swages that had been pulled off of boats that were rerigged. They found little indication from appearance of the viability of the fittings. Some swages that looked perfect failed way before the breaking strength of the wire. Other swages that had really nasty cracks exceded the breaking strength of the wire. In short, you can't tell without destructive testing what the condition of a swage is. Cracks will indicate a swage that may need to be changed but the absence of cracks is no guarantee of their strength.

I'm really nervous sailing on a boat with swage fittings. Would much rather sail on a boat that I've redone the rigging with swageless terminals. At lelast I'll have the comfort of knowing that the boat is rigged with fittings that have never failed me.

[bangkaboat]

Timely for me that this topic is being revisited, as I'm sitting in my hotel room scratching my head at what my decision will be tomorrow. Has anyone used the HAYN Marine fittings I see listed with West Marine?

[bangkaboat]

Originally Posted by bangkaboat

Timely for me that this topic is being revisited, as I'm sitting in my hotel room scratching my head at what my decision will be tomorrow. Has anyone used the HAYN Marine fittings I see listed with West Marine?

Whoops! Hi-mods ARE HAYNS!
Sorry.

I've been with swaged all my boating life.

[osirissail]

I don't think anybody has actually done comparative studies on the merits of the different types of terminal grabbing strengths.
- - StayLok and Norsemen bend the very end of the wires inward around the bottom the cone and then tighten the body down to squeeze these bent over ends between the cone and the body of the terminal.
- - Hi-Mod/Hayn does not bend the ends of the wires but instead relies only on the compression of the outer body and the cone.
- - The $64 dollar question is does the need to really tighten the Hi-Mod to squeeze the wires promote outer body cracking?
- - Norseman terminals do not have an inner "cup" and it is possible that the wire ends will be dragged sideways or spiral-ways as the outer body is tightened.
- - StayLoks have the little cup that encases the wire ends that wrap round the bottom of the cone. The cup can rotate in the lower body as the outer body is tightened keeping the bent over ends in their original position.
- - Failures that I know about have all happened when the outer body cracked and the compression was lost allowing the wire to slide out of the fitting.

[silverp40]

Suncor makes good ss fittings (China) but their wire terminals had problems in the past, serious enough that they had to modify them a few times.

I think by now they are on Mark V which apparently have not had any problems (yet).

[Kapena]

There was a professional test done on these 3 terminals...Maybe some one knows the site. Norseman failed repeatedly before the wire failed. Norseman made up new fittings for additional testing. Those also failed. Hy-mod pulled back a little but survived repeated testing. Sta-loks had no issues at all.


MC01 reported on a Practical Sailor test...this is a rag with totally unprofessional and unknowledgeable people. That said the test results from this rag are also as I stated above.. Norseman failed sta-lok doesn't.

good old boat also came up with same results for Norseman. I researched all this last year to re-rig my boat. I chose sta-loks but hy-mod works also. I had a professional rigger help and teach me the tricks and sta-lok was his choice also. They aren't cheap though.

[OS2Dude]

Originally Posted by cal40john

HyMods should be easier to use because you don't have to unlay the outer set of strands to go over the ferrule like you do for Sta lok and Norseman . HyMod hasn't been around very long so doesn't have much of a track record, and I thought I read somewhere that they were recently having QC issues, but this is a third hand report of a rumour, so I wouldn't dismiss them without checking into the veracity of the rumour.

Hi-Mod fittings do require the outer strands to be unlaid, the same as Sta-Loks do. Difference is Hi-Mods have a 'crown' that holds the strands apart while you tighten the fitting. We have HiMod fittings on our boat and so far no issues. Hi-Mod fittings edged out both Norseman & Sta-Lok in a Practical Sailor test.

[capt jgw]

Originally Posted by Wotname

I have only used Sta-Lok, found them very easy to use and can't fault the quality.

Me too.

[capt jgw]

Originally Posted by osirissail

- - Failures that I know about have all happened when the outer body cracked and the compression was lost allowing the wire to slide out of the fitting.

Which is why you should squirt a little sealant into the cone before assembling the fitting, especially if the boat will ever be in freezing weather. A couple drops of water freezing in there can split the fitting. That's with any brand. As I recall that step was labeled "optional", but since I was in Michigan I deemed it "required".