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Old 07-12-2011, 18:57   #16
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Originally Posted by Dockhead

Despite 11 year old sails, and despite my cr*ppy sail trimming skills, the boat is d*mned fast, so long as her bottom is clean. We walk away from 40-odd foot racing boats, much to the consternation of their skippers. We can break our 9.1 knot hull speed on any point of sail so long as there is enough wind.

<snip>

. Also -- even if I am faster than all those racing boats, I can't point with them, which really frustrates me. The best I can do at maximum VMG to windward is about 37 degrees apparent, which translates into 95 to 100 degree tacks on the GPS.
I am always amazed at the excellent advice this forum offers and you are getting some great advice.

The advice to get a sailmaker on board is good but I don't know how willing they would be.

One thought is to befriend one of those (good) racers and have him sail with you. You have the classic conundrum, good boat speed and insufficient pointing and you aren't winning until you can have both.

I sympathize greatly. Nothing is more frustrating and perplexing than watching the fleet climb upwind as I sail off into never never land. At the first tack being 500 meters astern of similar boats is deprressing.
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:13   #17
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Re: Help Me Fantasize About a New Sail Wardrobe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
The advice to get a sailmaker on board is good but I don't know how willing they would be.
Things may be different on this continent, but I've never bought a sail without the sailmaker coming aboard at least once prior to the deal being struck. In my racing days I always expected a loft representative to be aboard for one of our races, not only getting to know our boat and its inventory, but also helping us with tips on how to get a bit more boat speed. Unfortunately, on a cruising boat I've found that sailmakers would rather just visit the boat in the marina on a day when the sails can be put up in the slip.

Regardless, this service is part of what you're paying for by not purchasing one of the cookie-cutter discount sails made in Hong Kong. A good sail loft understands this.
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Old 08-12-2011, 15:06   #18
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Re: Help Me Fantasize About a New Sail Wardrobe

Alot of my sails are old and dirty (local sail maker refuses to roll them out on their floor), trim is nothing to complain about, it's one of those things you don't notice until you get new sails, the biggest difference will probably be when I get a new main.
I have acquired 4 sails for my boat, total price $400...$300 for 180% roller furling Genny with roller furler, $100 for 110% 25ft luff Yankee, 35ft luff 120% Yankee and 35ft luff triple stitched 120% regular cut both free.
I will try these all on for size and the ones I like I will have made new when I can afford it
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Old 08-12-2011, 17:37   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash

Things may be different on this continent, but I've never bought a sail without the sailmaker coming aboard at least once prior to the deal being struck. In my racing days I always expected a loft representative to be aboard for one of our races, not only getting to know our boat and its inventory, but also helping us with tips on how to get a bit more boat speed. Unfortunately, on a cruising boat I've found that sailmakers would rather just visit the boat in the marina on a day when the sails can be put up in the slip.

Regardless, this service is part of what you're paying for by not purchasing one of the cookie-cutter discount sails made in Hong Kong. A good sail loft understands this.
Point taken.

We agree that getting an "expert" on board, whether that be a sailmaker that is an excellent sailor or an excellent sailor that knows sails.

There are sailmakers that don't "really" know sailing and sailors that don't "really" know sails.

In regards to "discount" sails in HKG, there is a reason most of the fast guys are flying name sails, Quantum, North, Doyle etc...

Just saying it can't hurt to talk to the racers if one wishes to go fast...
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Old 13-12-2011, 13:57   #20
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Re: Help Me Fantasize About a New Sail Wardrobe

We rarely recommend a high clewed yankee. Bob Perry made an excellent case against them in a post that I've shared here:
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?no...50029875054959

We're big fans of the Cruising code Zero / Screecher concept:
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?no...09515292439751
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Old 16-12-2011, 07:18   #21
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Re: Help Me Fantasize About a New Sail Wardrobe

A lot of valuable comment here . I upgraded the sail wardrobe on my 48 ft cutter rigged catamaran (not the vessel in my profile) last year, but the aim was racing rather than cruising. Nonetheless, my experience may be helpful.

I agree totally with all the comments about talking to an expert. I dealt with a yacht designer (re some rig changes) and a sailmaker, and they came up with some excellent solutions that were beyond my limited understanding. I liked the cutter rig so the sailmaker redesigned the jib to make it far more efficient (its not a blade but its shorter and lower in the foot than it was) and suggested adding a lighter staysail for conditions below 15-20 knots, where our original heavy-duty Kevlar staysail was a bit of a dog (but we still use it for heavy weather). These changes massively improved our upwind performance and allowed us to use the lighter staysail to power everything up when a little off the wind (or more).

The new jib is carbon-technora. The performance of these laminates is stunning! But be aware that they have NO GIVE. We had to replace all our running rigging with top quality high tech lines, as the original lines just couldn't take the loads. Our boat is incredibly strong and high quality fittings, so these have withstood the new high loads, but you need to be sure yours will. And all these things are extra cost. And you can't let these laminates flap while you doodle around doing something else - if you do, something will soon break. It is like steel sheet flapping. So for cruising, you may well be advised to go a little less hi-tech on the sail cloth for headsails.

Mainsail - you have in-mast furling, so our changes (square-top, fully-battened) are not relevant, but you have less issues with flapping and loads with the main, so go for a good laminate, if they work with furling. You'll be stunned by the extra drive you get.

We also put a furling Code 0 on for light weather. I love this sail, but prob not necessary where you sail. We now have two assymetrical spinnakers, both in socks, and both can be handled fine short-handed. We have a biggish one that can go from about 80 degrees to 180 degrees (but we never go below 120 degrees on the cat), and a small, flat cut heavy weather spinn which is proving an immensely useful sail, and can be used quite close to the wind (50 degrees or less) in lighter winds. Off the wind, we can use it up to 35 knots.
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Old 16-12-2011, 08:45   #22
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Re: Help Me Fantasize About a New Sail Wardrobe

+1 on lighter larger staysail. Im having one built with battens to get more area.
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Old 16-12-2011, 11:04   #23
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Re: Help Me Fantasize About a New Sail Wardrobe

Re: Serrano's comments:
Multihulls place a much higher load on sails and rigging than a monohull. With the exception of the heavy cruising cats, multi-hulls tend to sail higher wind angles due to apparent wind being further forward and better VMG from sailing those hotter angles. So not everything transfers over to monohulls. We love Code Zero's on a lot of boats, especially if flown from a foil-less fuler. That sail is a proverbial Swiss Army knife and many cruisers are using them as an all around light air sail. They aren't the greatest at deep angles but ease of use and convenience trumps performance for a lot of shorthanded cruisers.

ctl411:
Battens on headsails are effective tools but keep in mind they can be maintenance hogs if the leech contacts anything during tacks.
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