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Old 23-10-2014, 17:22   #1
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heads up: Dyneema life lines and ISAF OSR's

There are not so many racers here . . . . but it looks very likely that ISAF will reverse itself and go back to banning dyneema life lines, and only allow stainless wire as in 'the old days'.

It has not been approved yet, but a working committee just recommended that change, and I suspect it will be approved.
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Old 23-10-2014, 17:42   #2
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Re: heads up: Dyneema life lines and ISAF OSR's

Any info on the rationale for the reversal?
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Old 23-10-2014, 17:53   #3
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Re: heads up: Dyneema life lines and ISAF OSR's

The working committee summary was: "The risk of crew members ending up in the water, both inshore and offshore is increased if HMPE lifelines are used rather than stainless steel wire, for reasons other than the materials ultimate strength, and for reasons that may be unrecognised by the crews until it is too late."

They must have had multiple incidents, which I am not aware of, and have not seen reports on. I am presuming these incidents happened in europe. And I am presuming from their wording that the dyneema was cut/worn inside the stanchions. But I have asked to get copies of the incident reports, so I can do more than presume/guess.
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Old 23-10-2014, 18:28   #4
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Re: heads up: Dyneema life lines and ISAF OSR's

Just got a little more info: "lifeline failures due to chafe from both stanchions and from sheets of other sails", but I don't yet know number of failures or any details.
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Old 23-10-2014, 19:14   #5
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Re: heads up: Dyneema life lines and ISAF OSR's

Collisions need to be factored in as well. I have been involved and near some severe racing collisions pre dyneema lifelines and certainly recall wire damaged to the point it needed to be replaced, but had not broken.
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Old 23-10-2014, 19:21   #6
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Re: heads up: Dyneema life lines and ISAF OSR's

I'm wondering why no-one has proposed sheathing the dyneema in plastic tubing (as was done, but not recommended on stainless wire)... This would surely eliminate chafe issues no?
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Old 23-10-2014, 19:41   #7
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Re: heads up: Dyneema life lines and ISAF OSR's

Sounds like CYA, I'm not deterred.

I walked the docks at the finish of a Classe Mini event this summer and greatly admired the myriad arrays of thoughtfully crafted rigging, both standing and running.

There is wasn't a shread of wire rope visible and those boats had all logged many miles.

Like anything it really just boils down to maintenance, and this is coming from someone who took a swim once on someone else's boat that happened to have wire lifelines. I've never handled myself the same on OPB's since.
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Old 23-10-2014, 23:36   #8
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Re: heads up: Dyneema life lines and ISAF OSR's

If failure is the reason for this consideration, then they need to do the forensics and comparisons on both wire and Dyneema.

Or is this fiat by one committee? Any avenue for review by outsiders?
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Old 24-10-2014, 07:20   #9
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Re: heads up: Dyneema life lines and ISAF OSR's

Still researching . . . was told this morning that this proposed revision to only SS was 'entirely driven by one RORC guy' (Dadd - he's the RORC Chief Measurer, and project manager on the VO65's).

Have not yet found a 'list of incidents and their detailed causes/incident reports' to support the change.

These were the members and terms of reference for the working party:

Chair: James Dadd, Members: Tom Rinda(USA), Thomas Nilsson(NOR). Staff: Simon Forbes
Terms of Reference:
i) To undertake a review of typical failures of life lines both stainless steel and UHMWPE investigating the primary reasons for failure of these materials as life lines;
ii) Identify methods to reduce or eliminate the reasons for failure for all materials studied
iii) To review the OSRs to determine if changes to the life line section should be undertaken
iv) To submit an interim report to the Sub-committee on the progress and work to date, additional work and a timetable. Submit a final report by 22 September with work undertake, analysis and recommendations
v) To submit any Submissions by 22 September 2014
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Old 24-10-2014, 09:15   #10
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Re: heads up: Dyneema life lines and ISAF OSR's

I've been wondering how long this was going to take. It'll be interesting to learn more as time goes by.

I haven't raced in quite a while (like years), but as of last I knew, coated wire was out because it was/is tough to spot corrosion in/on the wires, if they're that stuff with the white, opaque, factory coating.
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Old 24-10-2014, 10:22   #11
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Re: heads up: Dyneema life lines and ISAF OSR's

Royal Ocean Sailing club has banned the use of dyneema and other soft line of this type for lifelines as they chafe through and break with the obvious consequences. its from the rail meat hiking out under the upper so only the lower holds them in. the lower breaks and they are fishing you out of the water

US Sail. requires uncoated stainless steel for category 0 and 1

the Pacific cup for instance allows the use of synthetic lifelines. Transpac does not
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Old 23-06-2016, 04:15   #12
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Re: heads up: Dyneema life lines and ISAF OSR's

I know this is an old thread, but I'm currently in need to replace my lines, so:

- for the go-anywhere offshore sailboat, would you consider Dyneema lifelines?
- Will they outlast the SS lines when cruising in the tropics ?
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Old 23-06-2016, 06:36   #13
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Re: heads up: Dyneema life lines and ISAF OSR's

Quote:
Originally Posted by xslim View Post
I know this is an old thread, but I'm currently in need to replace my lines, so:

- for the go-anywhere offshore sailboat, would you consider Dyneema lifelines?
- Will they outlast the SS lines when cruising in the tropics ?
Bare SS wire is generally the most durable solution (for the application). It will not be accidentally cut or burned or degraded by uv. It can "flex fatigue" which will cause individual wire strands to break - need to replace if you ever see this.

Dyneema has other advantages - nicer in the hand, will not rust stain laundry you hang on it, more DIY friendly (although wire is certainly DIY-able also). The key with dyneema is to make sure where it passes thru the stanchions is absolutely smooth and rounded - it will last a long time if so, but can be cut quickly if there are any sharp ridges left by old wire markings.

For a cruiser either can work just fine . . . But I guess if you are uncertain I would advise you to go with wire.
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Old 23-06-2016, 06:46   #14
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Re: heads up: Dyneema life lines and ISAF OSR's

I think it also should be said that the ruled restrictions on textile lifelines do not apply to multihulls. I may stand corrected, but it is my understanding that multihulls are exempt from the ISAF legislation
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Old 23-06-2016, 07:09   #15
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Re: heads up: Dyneema life lines and ISAF OSR's

Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
Bare SS wire is generally the most durable solution (for the application). It will not be accidentally cut or burned or degraded by uv. It can "flex fatigue" which will cause individual wire strands to break - need to replace if you ever see this.

Dyneema has other advantages - nicer in the hand, will not rust stain laundry you hang on it, more DIY friendly (although wire is certainly DIY-able also). The key with dyneema is to make sure where it passes thru the stanchions is absolutely smooth and rounded - it will last a long time if so, but can be cut quickly if there are any sharp ridges left by old wire markings.

For a cruiser either can work just fine . . . But I guess if you are uncertain I would advise you to go with wire.
Thank you!
BTW, I enjoyed reading your books!

What did you use on Hawk? What were your reasons?
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