Hank-on Sails vs Furler ?

[NoahH28Ketch]

Below is the only place I can find a pic of the current mess! pause the vid at 16 secs, and you can see the knotted mess of a halyard!

Link to video, pause at 16 seconds!

So thanks Nick, it will be fixed pronto!

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by NoahH28Ketch

All thats required then is modifying the length and position of the bowline on the end of the halyard, a straight-forward affair, and because the loop is nice and close to the drum, it should mean the shackle won't end up in the sailcloth doing damage whilst being furled.

You need a big enough loop attached to the drum with the shackle in the sail... when you make a short loop, there isn't enough room for the block to tension the halyard.
The loop ending up inside the furled sail is the reason I would prefer to use a soft shackle.

cheers,
Nick.

[feelsgood]

Originally Posted by SurferShane

I have a steel H 28 Ketch with a staysail and have decided to go against the modern trend for furlers and am sticking with a number of hank-on headsails. The way I look at it is that the sails on the boat are fairly small and easy to handle, so why not have a few different specific sails for different conditions?

I am also transferring this topic from another thread http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f47/ketchs-vs-sloops-21635-4.html#post413485 where my interest in this issue has sidetracked the original discussion. Some of the comments I found interesting on that thread included:

“I use hank on jib for easy drop and replacing of sail. A strong 6 ounce jib is good for off shore and you can drop and replace with a light air sail. Say a 4 ounce jib for light air will get you to windward.” by wsvoboda

“Hank on genoa's outperform roller furling genoa's. I would immediately specify at least a batten at the head of the genoa or even a wishbone at the clew!!

Also, when it's time to reef and you take down the genoa and hoist a jib, the difference with a half-furled (roller) genoa becomes silly and you are way better off.
Don't forget that you can add a reef to the foot of a hank-on foresail too!” by s/v Jedi

These comments pretty much summarise the reason why I have decided to spare the expense of a furled. It also seems that furlers can fail?

I note, I am intending using my H 28 as a pocket offshore cruiser.


(Thanks too for the comments I have quoted)

I have a friend that has a 29 footer with a double fore stay side by side and a stay sail stay. He hanks on a genoa on the port stay and a gib on the stbd stay he has a system that alows him to rais and lower the sails from the cockpit. On the staysail stay he has the same system I have only been out with him once and saw all the fore sails used and no jams. with the arangement he has he is covered for all winds and she sailed very well.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

and I am experimenting with a number of "different" sails- the Twisle rig among them.

Newt, be interested in your findings and experience of the twizzle rig

Back to the thread, hopefully our local sail maker is busy chopping up a hank on No2 and converting to RF for us as we speak. It's an e bay special and came off an unknown yacht but in suprisingly good condition. So the plan is to use it in place of the 135% Genoa before setting off, if it looks like we will need to reef. It will also act as a back up to the rather old Genoa just incase it blows a seam on a X channel trip.

We could have kept it with hanks as we have a spare forestay for the storm jib but prefer RF and staying in the cockpit on a 31 foot boat in nasty seas when short handed but each to their own

Pete

[bewitched]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Now, watch very carefully: the furler didn't break, both foot and head of the sail are still fully rolled up. It is the middle section that has unwrapped because that is what the awesome power of 100 knot winds can do. Next thing is that you now fly a sail halfway up the mast and so the boat decides to start sailing and that trip ends on a reef.

I think you moved the discussion sideways there a bit Nick.

I agree the headsail should be taken off if possible - Where I live we get 4 or 5 typhoons a year an 30% or so of the boats that don't take them off end up having them destroyed like the picture you posted.

But the issue I thought we were discussing is whether a storm sail can go in a furler or not. I believe it can. If additional backup is desired it could be "laced" on: The foil takes the load, the "lace" is for back up should the foil fail.

I say 'laced' (hoisted loose, tightened and tied off at the bottom - like an upside down shoe lace) rather than 'tied' each foot or so because from what I've experienced on race boats (where there is no option other than a foil) is the that the backup ties tend to flog until they untie themselves.

Personally, I wouldn't bother - a couple of wraps on the furler and the foil takes very little load.

I do agree though that in terms of a secure system, a hank on system is by far the most robust. However, many (most?) boats simply don't have this option.

[s/v Jedi]

Bewitched: I'm not trying to convince you anymore, neither of us is gonna agree with the other. Please post a picture of "your" storm jib on a furler when you get it, it'll be the first one I see. I truly wonder how many are out there like that.

But I do not agree that many/most boats do not have the option for a regular storm jib. Every boat has that option and it's the way it's been done for a long long time. It is a choice one makes, and a furling genoa does not in any way inhibit one to install an inner stay, removable or not, so that a standard storm jib can be hanked on.

cheers,
Nick.

[bewitched]

Nick

My storm sail is a hanks onto the inner stay, but that's beside the point

My initial remark was that although I have heard views that a storm sail should not go on a furler, I've never had an convincing explanation as to why. I still haven't.

As to the ability to hank on a storm jib, perhaps I should have added the caveat "without significant modification to the rig" many (most) boats don't have this option.

I guess we shall have to agree to differ

[s/v Jedi]

Oh no Bewitched ;-)) you want others to try your idea but you're not gonna get away with that any time soon ;-) No, I expect you to design and test a furled stormjib incl. full photo report here on the forum, incl. photo's of that partially furled jib in high wind conditions ha ha! Better yet, I want to see a video of you personally hoisting and feeding it into the foil and then furling it and un-furling it... all in storm conditions of course.
As an incentive, I offer $100.- if you produce those results and who knows others might follow and you get rich while realizing your design!
Heck, if it works well, I also vow to put a furler on my cutter stay!

cheers!
Nick.

[bewitched]

Wow Nick your hard work!! : ))

1 .Hank on is best

2. In a foil only (regardless of whether on a roller or not) is not sufficient.

3. Tieing on a sail in conditions that require a storm jib is not the way to go (In my opinion - and I have been on a number of boats where this has been tried and failed because it is so difficult to achieve).

4. Tieing a sail onto a roller furling beforehand - unfurling it when it is needed - this has to be an improvement on 2 and 3 doesn't it??

[s/v Jedi]

No more talk, photo's and video!! there's $100 here with your name on it ;-)

You could push me for more $$ if you provide multiple camera angles when unfurling it in 60 knots. I want to see the jib, but also the person controlling the furling line! ;-)) Let the cameras roll!

;-)

ciao!
Nick.

[Stillraining]

What do you call the sails that the racers hoist and lower that all individually have a continuous line roller on it even when stowed.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Stillraining

What do you call the sails that the racers hoist and lower that all individually have a continuous line roller on it even when stowed.

Good question, I don't know, free-flying furler? ;-) They use two spectra lines instead of the foil (at least, that was how they used to be) but I have only seen them for reachers, screamers, code-zero's etc.

cheers,
Nick.

[Stillraining]

Thanks Nick...I was just wondering if that would be an option for some of us with inter stays that are pretty close to the fore stay...Mine is only back about 4 or 5 feet and I just got to thinking that might solve the storage problem with the removable inerstay..you could basically have a block with a halyard there on the mast in its place always at the read to hoist a blade sail/storm sail on a roller in a moments notice...You Could have it hoisted in place well before the stink hits the fan..or just the tack hooked up and the rest lying along the toe rail in waiting.

[s/v Jedi]

Ah, you want $100 too ;-))
No, I don't see that working either... in fact, I think you won't even be able to get it hoisted in a storm ;-) I also think you need the tension of a stay for support to prevent sagging the luff of the jib.

ciao!
Nick.

[Stillraining]

LOL... it was just a brain tickle I had to itch..

In my dreams I'm a go fast racer with all the cool toys, my youth back and hot chicks as well..