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Old 04-03-2010, 12:10   #16
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I have a big (150) genoa that really needs a furler, it's a heavy sail and perhaps not ideal and WHEN I replace it it may become a 120. I had one 'fail to furl' and dropped the sail quite easily, just hard work hoisting it and re-furling next morning.
If you want to go hanked then I'd recommend a front hinged fore hatch that crew can use if rough rather than working on deck. Also much quicker and easier to get the 'off' sail (and crew) down below and secured.
I've got small clip on's on all sail bags so I don't loose the bag (or sail) (if I remember to clip it on!).
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Old 04-03-2010, 13:14   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleven View Post
I have a big (150) genoa that really needs a furler, it's a heavy sail and perhaps not ideal and WHEN I replace it it may become a 120. .
You can uasally get about 30% out of a furled sail befor it goes to hell if it has a foam luff... meaning you can take a 120% and roll it down to a 90% and still have a relitively proper shape.. A 150% will only roll down to about 115% to 120% befor it goes sour...
A foam luff is a piece of foam sewed into the front or luff of the sail so as its rolled up, it pulls more out of the center of the sail than the outside and changes the shape of the sail as it gets smaller..
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Old 04-03-2010, 14:39   #18
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Dockhead, I realized that I may need a babystay to keep a functional jib when the weather cooks up. I do believe I can get that effect with a different hanked on sail. My compac is so small, I did not think there would be much of a place for a baby stay.
On the other hand, maybe a foam luff might help. I am currently repairing my sails. Will have to look into that.
But hanked on are looking better and better. Why do you have to go on deck to take a sail down? None of you guys like using a jib downhaul?
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Old 04-03-2010, 15:24   #19
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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
Dockhead, I realized that I may need a babystay to keep a functional jib when the weather cooks up. I do believe I can get that effect with a different hanked on sail. My compac is so small, I did not think there would be much of a place for a baby stay.
On the other hand, maybe a foam luff might help. I am currently repairing my sails. Will have to look into that.
Well, my point was that your method of carrying the main headsail[s] does not change your predicament with a storm sail. If you're not balanced with a deeply-reefed roller furling headsail, you will not be balanced with a hanked-on storm job, hanked on in the same place. That problem will lead you to find a different position for the luff of your storm jib, that is, an inner forestay of some kind.

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But hanked on are looking better and better. Why do you have to go on deck to take a sail down? None of you guys like using a jib downhaul?
I don't even know what that IS, but I will bet that even if it will get a sail down, with you absent from the foredeck, it will not bag and stow the old sail, and put up the new one for you.
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Old 04-03-2010, 15:39   #20
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I have been working on a foredeck in impossible situations. Most of the time I was air born and meeting the deck every 2 seconds was painful. I am very happy with my furler now.

I see advantages of hank-on foresails but having to work the foredeck isn't one of them.

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Old 04-03-2010, 16:46   #21
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Having the right sail for the conditions has it's place. For me that place is racing. For cruising do you really all this:

Sail wardrobe for race boat (from memory):
Light No.1
Med No. 1
Heavy no.1
No.2
No.3
No. 4
Storm sail
Jib top
Regatta Main
Offshore Main
Trysail
0.5 oz runner
2.2 oz runner
0.75 oz runner (several)
0.75 oz reacher (several)
Asymetic (several)
Code zero

and that's for a sloop. For a ketch with a staysail, I can think of another 4 on top of that
There goes all my storage room and I don’t know where I am going to put the extra rations for bluewater passages. Still, I do think a smaller wardrobe of sails might be more versatile than a single furled headsail?
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Old 04-03-2010, 16:49   #22
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I sold the roller furling on my boat and changed to hank on. I carry 3 foresails. One 130% working for no reef. One high aspect 90% jib for reef 1and a small heavy storm jib for reef 2. I believe in the Kiss principle and that doesn't include roller furlers. I can remember at least twice of forestays coming apart inside furlers and it wasn't found until the halyard was the only thing supporting the mast. I also have two forestays for redundancy.
Similar to what I am looking at especially the notion of the KISS principle.
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Old 04-03-2010, 16:52   #23
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Due to the fact that we ARE on the subject of furled sails.............
Does anyone have any experance with furled mains IN THE BOOM..
we've looked at a couple, and at one time it seemed the sails would wrap like a rolled up newspaper but I've herd that has been overcome..
Any experance???????/
I have sailed a couple of in-boom furling main sail boats and a couple of in-mast furling main sail boats.

In-boom is superior if the main is fitted with full length battens. The boom to mast angle is critical. Lots of in-boom boats have solid fixed vangs to maintain the angle.

In mast furling is another thing all together. It make a big boat easy to sail. I skippered a 50 Jeanneau with thrusters and full RF. I could do the whole thing myself while the charter guests lounged in the cockpit or salon. The anchor went up and down by remote control.

We are frugal and simplicity oriented on Averisera. Hanks for our head sails. At work, I like the full RF.
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Old 04-03-2010, 16:53   #24
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My first boat had hanked on sails. Current boat doesn't.

The only thing roller furling really offers is convenience (and that includes storage).

In terms of sailing performance, hanked on is the way to go--excepting fluky winds.

To me the best sailing is 17 to 27 knots. That's underpowered for my staysail and overpowered for my roller furled sail. It just gets too baggy. It's when sailing is at its best that I miss hanked on sails the most. I really miss that 100% blade up front.
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Old 04-03-2010, 16:54   #25
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Well, whatever turns you on. It's fun playing a huge wardrobe of sails, and definitely more romantic.

For me, furling headsails are a no-brainer.
As far as the romanticism is concerned a lot of my inspiration is from reading Francis Chichester’s “Gipsy Moth Circles the World”. If a gentleman in his 60’s with a bung leg on a 50’ ketch that initially absolutely refused to behave can handle a comprehensive wardrobe of hank on sails while circumnavigating single-handed, then I should not have too many problems on my pocket cruiser?
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Old 04-03-2010, 16:57   #26
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I have been working on a foredeck in impossible situations. Most of the time I was air born and meeting the deck every 2 seconds was painful. I am very happy with my furler now.

I see advantages of hank-on foresails but having to work the foredeck isn't one of them.

cheers,
Nick.
Gotta admit the convenience is something I will obviously be losing. However, I am hoping to pick up some knowledge of different sails and trim and I will be installing life lines while keeping a very close eye on the weather.
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Old 04-03-2010, 17:12   #27
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It is true that a furling genoa does not really save you from needing a storm jib of some kind. Once you have furled much more than 30% of a furling genoa, the sail stops working anywhere near the wind, the shape just goes to h*ll..,

None of this is really essential for coastal cruisers who can avoid big blows.
Not only is the shape a worry to me, but I also think you have to consider the weight of the cloth left flying? For instance, a typical 150% Genoa to be efficient on my boat would need to be at most 5 oz cloth. In comparison, my storm jib is 10 oz. It is fairly obvious as to which will disintegrate first?

I am mainly coastal cruising, however I live in a deepwater port and it is easy to get locked out of other bars up and down the coast. The prospect of doing some real passages to places like Lord Howe Island and the Pacific is also too much to resist.
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Old 04-03-2010, 17:29   #28
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That problem will lead you to find a different position for the luff of your storm jib, that is, an inner forestay of some kind.
Thanks – next voyage I am going to have to play with sail positions and that inner stay!
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Old 04-03-2010, 18:29   #29
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a typical 150% Genoa to be efficient on my boat would need to be at most 5 oz cloth. In comparison, my storm jib is 10 oz. It is fairly obvious as to which will disintegrate first?
True, but I don't think that any sailmaker, or experienced sailor, would advise you to use a 150% genoa as a storm sail.

The advantage of roller furlings is ease of use and safety (minimal trips to the foredeck). The downside is that there is an increasing lack of performance as the sail is furled. I guess my setup is fairly typical - I roll up my furler as the wind increases. At about 25kts it's starting to look pretty ugly, I roll it in and hoist a staysail. So yes, I do have a window between about 25 and 30 kts where I don't have the right sail for the job, but I can live with being a little over powered or a little underpowered in this small window. I much prefer that to dragging sails around and getting wet up front.

Remember with hank ons, to cover the wind ranges 10kts to 30kts, you will need (I'd guess) 4 headsails. If you don't have all 4, you too will have a window where you don't have the right sail for the job.

There is also the issue of wear and tear, dragging sails up and down the decks, tieing them to the lifelines, dragging them over the lifelines as you hoist. This type of thing really does shorten their life.
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Old 04-03-2010, 18:48   #30
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limitations of a furling headsail

My experience is that even with a padded luff, a furling genoa performs poorly when partially furled, especially in terms of pointing ability. On my previous boat we would replace our 110% lapper with a high-clew 85% yankee during the summer months, and we discovered that we could still do hull speed in the SF Bay breezes, and point five degrees higher than we could with the 110% choked down to 85%. I've just ordered a similar sail for the new boat, hoping to be switching it on by the first of May.

In essence, what this means is that I only have two headsail changes a year. The lapper is better for the light breezes of winter, where as a general rule I tend not to venture out during storms anyway. It will serve duty from the beginning of October through the April, and spend its summers in a storage locker. The added benefit is that it will have a far longer service life since I'm not sailing it furled in high winds, a practice that is really tough on a headsail.
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